Hunting with FMJ ammo -

I know a dude who used a 5.56 Nato 62gr FMJ on a full sized deer. He told me that 1 shot to the chest brought it down instantly in it's tracks. He said it works, but wasn't his first choice in cartridge selection.

To be honest, nor round is perfect and sometimes bullet placement is off, but I prefer to use the right bullet for the job at hand. I use match bullets in competition for a reason. Sure I could use hunting bullets for competition, but I won't be winning anything. Military FMJ's are the least accurate and they were used in competition in the past. They called it "Flying with IVI"
 
Military FMJ bullets tend to have a long tapered nose section which leaves most of the bullet's weight at it's back end. When the nose of the bullet encounters resistance more often than not the bullet swaps ends due to it's butt heavy configuration, and if the turn makes 180 degrees, the base of the bullet may expand. Often though the velocity is used up while the bullet is passing through the target sideways, so the designers of some bullets cut the cannulars deeper allowing the bullet to break in two, resulting in 2 or more bullet tracks. The bullet fragments would tear around inside the body cavity making quite a mess, always following the path of least resistance. Had the do gooders at the Hague thought things through, the use of expanding bullets might of proven more humane. Given the effects of high explosive artillery shells, cluster bombs, and fuel air explosives, the style of bullet a soldier carries into battle seems somewhat trivial.

My understanding was that the US military was given a pass and allowed to field Sierra MK's for use in sniper rifles, the argument being that the MK's hollow point was to aid in accuracy rather than to increase the wounding effect of the round. I don't know if any Sierra MK's ever made their way to the battlefield, but due to the fragility of the bullet, it would expect that it would prove unsatisfactory for military use - at least in .30 caliber.
 
Thanks for all the great info guys.

I was not actually advocating for the use of military FMJ for hunting. I was just wondering if governments based their prohibition on FMJ for hunting based on sound evidence, or if this was a case of prohibition based on theroetical problems that may occur.
 
For anyone interested....
http://ww w.thegunzone.com/hague.html

FMJ was adopted mostly due to the fact that hunting type ammo lacerate's artery's and veins on it's way thru your body and break's up making retrival of it a nightmare to doctor's in the field AND causing severe trauma to whomever get's hit.... i know i would much rather have a FMJ round pass thru me (or even tumble a bit) then a hollowpoint in 3 or more pieces floating around in my gut's.

when you take game in the field you want to make a clean fast kill no matter what the cost, when you aim at a human in war the goal is the same but fragnable ammo make's repairing a wound in a person beyond the scope of a field medic (imagin moving someone with a piece of a copper jacket touching an artery for instance).

there was a good documentry on TLC a couple years back that talked about various frag explosives used by the USA, it focused on cluster bomb's and the unexploded bomblet's left behind that children liked to play with.

let's keep our war's humane eh?
 
/ hijack

Just wondering, if I was to file or grind or cut, or whatever the tip of the Czech surplus 7.62x39, would it then become legal to hunt with ???
( NOT asked if it was a smart thing to do, just asked it it would be legal. )

/ end hijack
 
Boomer said:
Military FMJ bullets tend to have a long tapered nose section which leaves most of the bullet's weight at it's back end. When the nose of the bullet encounters resistance more often than not the bullet swaps ends due to it's butt heavy configuration, and if the turn makes 180 degrees, the base of the bullet may expand. Often though the velocity is used up while the bullet is passing through the target sideways, so the designers of some bullets cut the cannulars deeper allowing the bullet to break in two, resulting in 2 or more bullet tracks. The bullet fragments would tear around inside the body cavity making quite a mess, always following the path of least resistance. Had the do gooders at the Hague thought things through, the use of expanding bullets might of proven more humane. Given the effects of high explosive artillery shells, cluster bombs, and fuel air explosives, the style of bullet a soldier carries into battle seems somewhat trivial.

My understanding was that the US military was given a pass and allowed to field Sierra MK's for use in sniper rifles, the argument being that the MK's hollow point was to aid in accuracy rather than to increase the wounding effect of the round. I don't know if any Sierra MK's ever made their way to the battlefield, but due to the fragility of the bullet, it would expect that it would prove unsatisfactory for military use - at least in .30 caliber.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right!!!
Having dealt with many types of FMJ, I can say that tests in ballistic gelatin are inconclusive at best.
Take for instance 7,62x51 (.308). The regular ammo (loaded by many countries, including US) has a very good penetration. Not so with commercial FMJs. Also, the Germans modified it's structure and when they fielded the 308 their design would almost guarantee that the bullet will fragment in 5-7" of flesh. What's my point? Julst like soft point ammo, not all FMJ asre created equal.

When I was in the army, I was issued steel core FMJ. The bullet had an air pocket and the core would move forward upon striking the target, destabilizing the projectile and doubling as penetration agent. This would guarantee that the bullet would tumble and the permanent cavity wound would be huge. Exit wounds were horrific. The bullet however would not fragment.

Why are most tests inconclusive? Because -like it was said before - the target (human or animal) is not uniform in structure and even a contracted muscle can steer a bullet, not to mention different media in the body.
A bullet, upon entering the body, tends to veer off to the path of less resistance. The gyroscopic stabilization at that rate is enough to stabilize the bullet in the air, but in a higher density media, it would need more. Much more. The speed of the bullet creates a wave of shock that is materialized in a temporary cavity. The physical displacement of matter creates a permanent cavity. Here lies the difference between a hunting bullet (soft point or solid) and a FMJ. The diameter of the the permanent cavity a hunting bullet creates is the same with the diameter of the expanded bullet, at it's highest point. Temporary cavity varies with the speed and mass of the projectile
A FMJ would leave a larger permanent cavity IF it has enough length of the target media to fully destabilize and tumble. And no, usually the don't open up once they travel backwards.

Are FMJ deadly? You bet. They were designed to avoid superfluous injuries (as per Geneva Convention)... but like it's been said before, the majority of casualties on the battlefield are caused by artillery bombardments or air bombardments .... so the whole idea is a bit..... Well.

If I was to chose one FMJ to hunt with, that would be without any doubt the 7,62x54R (the Russian version, not the cheap machinegun fodder from Albania or...)

There are also methods of improving on FMJ rounds, for use in hunting. "Spooning" is one of them.

Reminder.... this is a technical discussion. By no means would I encourage anybody to buy FMJ for hunting, or use them. In this day of age, there isn't likely anyone doing any hunting that couldn't afford a box of proper hunting ammo. And if there are out there, they are sure not reading this on internet.... Just like hunting with the SKS.... It can be done, but what's the point?
 
Slowbalt said:
/ hijack

Just wondering, if I was to file or grind or cut, or whatever the tip of the Czech surplus 7.62x39, would it then become legal to hunt with ???
( NOT asked if it was a smart thing to do, just asked it it would be legal. )

/ end hijack
Click to expand...

No as that stuff is STEEL CORE! :D

Just buy some Hornadays soft point .310 dia, 125 grain bullets for the 7.62x39 cartridge. :)
 
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In my younger and foolish days, I thought FMJ 55 grain bullets for a 222 Remington would be good enough for jackrabbits. Boy was I wrong!

One could hear the hit on him, and it did not even sound right. You know on game animals, when you get a good chest hit with soft point ammo, one gets that, "smacked with a 2 X 4 kind of sound."

That rabbit got away with a solid body hit (not a head shot) at about 150 to 200 yards, he just tucked his tail and ran away, he probably became coyote breakfast.

I never repeated this single, stupid act, soft point or hollow point from then on......

My bad, very bad....
 
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