Huskemaw optics and the Best of the west clowns

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blargon said:
Not sure if the private ranches and preserves means there is NO public land. Maybe more to do with the guides and outfitters doing the scouting ahead of time, and have animals picked out. Harder to do on public land with more pressure.

Private land doesn't always mean its a canned hunt.
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you missed a post I think

blargon said:
There is still lots of public land.
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Brian46 said:
not when you compare it to canada.
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skhunter said:
What I was trying to get across is that with most big game calibers 300yd shots are easily made without the need for specialized equipment. All you need is a good rest and shooting ability. So to bring 300yd and closer shots into this debate is meaningless.
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But the entire discussion is about specialized equipment. Truthfully, there are a lot of shooters out there that shouldn't be shooting at even 300 yards so I'm not certain why it's meaningless in the context of getting closer. I see no difference in the taking of a shot at 300 yards or 600 yards in regards to ethics. Both require the shooter to be skilled enough to do it. If he has the skill what's the issue and if he doesn't, then there's an issue, regardless of the yardage number you choose. I think some people just have difficulty wrapping their heads around the skill level of some of these shooters.
 
bearkilr said:
Like the teenage girl shooting her first big game animal (cow elk) at 800 yards with a 243?
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With the right coach at your side nearly anyone could make that shot with minimal range time. Actually the less firearm experience the better. Heck, I can have someone that has never fired a rifle banging the gong 5 times out of 5 at 600 yards with a few minutes of instruction but that does not mean they are in any way ready to spread their wings and fly on their own. I think showing kids shooting this gear does well demonstrate how simple it is to use but I think anyone with half a brain realizes that there's a lot more that goes into it if you plan to do it on your own without a coach at your side.
 
sheephunter said:
I know it's fashionable to say we get as close as we can before we take the shot and I'm guilty of saying it as well but I must admit that more than once I've taken a shot at 300 yards when I likely could have made it to 250 or maybe even 200 yards. I suspect you've done the same...perhaps at different yardages but you get my drift. It's one of those things we say but it really isn't 100% accurate. If you got to 100 yards on a deer would you try to get to 80, or 60? Does that mean you are not hunting either? It's a slippery slope we tread on. I have no doubt that John Porter gets within a range where he is certain of a lethal shot too. His lethal shot certainty just happens to be twice or three times that of most people. So because he's more skilled than you or I it makes him unethical? I'm not a long range shooter by any means nor do I really have the desire to be but I'm not sure that choice gives me the right to judge those more skilled than I. It seems some feel it does though. You use a lot of popular buzz phrases in your post hoyt but they are neither quantifiable nor do they really bear any scrutiny. While many of us would like to consider our ethics superior....at the end of the day they are just our ethics.
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I think that you and John Porter (haven't got a clue who he is, nor do I care) have been sitting on mountains too long hunting with the wrong sort of folks... When I say, I "get as close as I can," that is not a flipant cliche... I literally get as close as I possibly can, in my estimation of the circumstances. Even if I am well within my effective range, if I believe that I can get even closer and still remain undetected, I will... I have alsways hunted this way and I always will hunt this way... To me, beating the keen and innate senses of wild animals is a rush which far outwighs seeing it dead at my feet... My most profound memories are not of trophies taken, but of the closest encounters... The time I slapped a doe on the nose, the time I poked a medium sized black bear in the rump with a Judo tipped small game arrow, and saw the expression on its face... The time I stepped out of my canoe on a pre-dawn moose hunt and had a pack of snarling wolves charge out of the bush and swarm around me, within feet (they didn't know I was there, but were fighting over the leg bone of a yearling bull they had taken down)... As for "shooting" I speak "sheepishly" of the longest shots that I have taken game with, as with some embarassment at being unnable to close the distance.

This is all I have to say on this matter... Gump out.
 
sheephunter said:
With the right coach at your side nearly anyone could make that shot with minimal range time. Actually the less firearm experience the better. Heck, I can have someone that has never fired a rifle banging the gong 5 times out of 5 at 600 yards with a few minutes of instruction but that does not mean they are in any way ready to spread their wings and fly on their own. I think showing kids shooting this gear does well demonstrate how simple it is to use but I think anyone with half a brain realizes that there's a lot more that goes into it if you plan to do it on your own without a coach at your side.
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Just like landing a 747 while being coached by a pilot in the tower,right? :D
 
hoytcanon said:
As for "shooting" I speak "sheepishly" of the longest shots that I have taken game with, as with some embarassment at being unnable to close the distance.
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That does raise the question of why you took the shot. I'm pretty happy with any kill that is quick and humane. This past season our shots ranged from 8-600 yards, with a huge variety in between. They are all fond memories and each took a unique skill set to complete successfully. I like the challenges that the variety of hunting situations present but each to their own but it does seem kind of sad that you are embarrassed about some of your kills. I personally wouldn't take a shot if I couldn't feel good about it after. Why not just walk away?
 
sheephunter said:
That does raise the question of why you took the shot. I'm pretty happy with any kill that is quick and humane. This past season our shots ranged from 8-600 yards, with a huge variety in between. They are all fond memories and each took a unique skill set to complete successfully. I like the challenges that the variety of hunting situations present but each to their own but it does seem kind of sad that you are embarrassed about some of your kills. I personally wouldn't take a shot if I couldn't feel good about it after. Why not just walk away?
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Have you ever missed a long range shot on an animal?
 
skhunter said:
Have you ever missed a long range shot on an animal?
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My furthest shot ever is 611 yards so I'm far from a long range shooter. I did miss a shot this year at 599 yards on a tur because I miscalculated the angle of the shot. As far as I can remember that's the only shot over 400 yards that I've ever missed but it's not like I've taken many. Now if you want to talk about under 200 yards, I can give a few more examples....lol
 
sheephunter said:
That does raise the question of why you took the shot. I'm pretty happy with any kill that is quick and humane. This past season our shots ranged from 8-600 yards, with a huge variety in between. They are all fond memories and each took a unique skill set to complete successfully. I like the challenges that the variety of hunting situations present but each to their own but it does seem kind of sad that you are embarrassed about some of your kills. I personally wouldn't take a shot if I couldn't feel good about it after. Why not just walk away?
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Allow me to clarify... I was not at all uncomfortable in taking the shot... If I though that there were the remotest possibility that I could not successfully make the shot, I "would" walk away... I certainly don't "need" another deer, moose or bear etc... As a matter of fact, the older I get, the less inclined I am to drop the string or squeeze the trigger... Rather, I was sheepish in the retelling because for me the hunt gets more exciting the closer I get to the quarry... And that is normally where I place the emphasis... So, in not getting "eyeball to eyeball" so-to-speak, I feel the "shooter" rather than the "hunter" and thus for me the telling of the tale is diminished.
 
sheephunter said:
My furthest shot ever is 611 yards so I'm far from a long range shooter. I did miss a shot this year at 599 yards on a tur because I miscalculated the angle of the shot. As far as I can remember that's the only shot over 400 yards that I've ever missed but it's not like I've taken many. Now if you want to talk about under 200 yards, I can give a few more examples....lol
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I am the pretty much the same, I killed a big mule buck at 500yds once and have also missed closer. How many 500yd one shot hits do I have to make before me taking a 500yd shot is ethical.

If I miss a 200yd shot in the morning should is it unethical for me to take a 300yd shot in the afternoon.

I think we have to be careful when we decide whether a shot is ethical based on results.
 
skhunter said:
If I miss a 200yd shot in the morning should is it unethical for me to take a 300yd shot in the afternoon.

I think we have to be careful when we decide whether a shot is ethical based on results.
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I think the key is being honest with yourself and analyzing each miss. If you missed because you shot beyond your skill level it's one thing but if you missed from any other number of reasons, it's important to figure out why and learn from it. If you don't occasionally miss you don't hunt very much. The trick is to respect your skill level and don't shoot beyond it and to use each miss as a learning experience. It's hard to look at a shot and admit you missed because of something you screwed up but it's how we learn. It's equally important to look at every perfectly placed shot and analyze it so you can emulate it again in the future or decide if it was just luck and you shouldn't do it again.
 
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hoytcanon said:
Allow me to clarify... I was not at all uncomfortable in taking the shot... If I though that there were the remotest possibility that I could not successfully make the shot, I "would" walk away... I certainly don't "need" another deer, moose or bear etc... As a matter of fact, the older I get, the less inclined I am to drop the string or squeeze the trigger... Rather, I was sheepish in the retelling because for me the hunt gets more exciting the closer I get to the quarry... And that is normally where I place the emphasis... So, in not getting "eyeball to eyeball" so-to-speak, I feel the "shooter" rather than the "hunter" and thus for me the telling of the tale is diminished.
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I actually wasn't implying you weren't comfortable or skilled enough for the shot...I was just questioning why you'd take a shot that you would be embarrassed about later. As you say, you certainly don't "need" the animal....so why kill it if it doesn't enhance your experience of the hunt?
 
sheephunter said:
I actually wasn't implying you weren't comfortable or skilled enough for the shot...I was just questioning why you'd take a shot that you would be embarrassed about later. As you say, you certainly don't "need" the animal....so why kill it if it doesn't enhance your experience of the hunt?
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Because at that time, the freezer was empty... I compromised the depth of the hunt, in favour of flavour.
 
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sheephunter said:
I think the key is being honest with yourself and analyzing each miss. If you missed because you shot beyond your skill level it's one thing but if you missed from any other number of reasons, it's important to figure out why and learn from it. If you don't occasionally miss you don't hunt very much. The trick is to respect your skill level and don't shoot beyond it and to use each miss as a learning experience. It's hard to look at a shot and admit you missed because of something you screwed up but it's how we learn. It's equally important to look at every perfectly placed shot and analyze it so you can emulate it again in the future or decide if it was just luck and you shouldn't do it again.
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So how does one define ones skill level. Group size, number of cold bore hits at a certain distance on a given day, repeatability, equipment quality?

I agree the more you shoot, the more you are going to miss. As in my case I have missed more 200yd shots than 500yd shots simply because of the number of opportunities of each.

I think that choosing whether or not to take a shot at any distance is highly personal, much like a persons choice of spouse. So in the end judging someone else's choice is a no win situation for both parties.
 
skhunter said:
So how does one define ones skill level. Group size, number of cold bore hits at a certain distance on a given day, repeatability, equipment quality?

.
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I'd say repeatability under actual field conditions shooting a 10" gong.

I think that choosing whether or not to take a shot at any distance is highly personal, much like a persons choice of spouse. So in the end judging someone else's choice is a no win situation for both parties.
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Couldn't agree more.
 
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