Huskemaw optics and the Best of the west clowns

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Incorrect. Setting up at extreme ranges to shoot targets for fun/competition at long range is different than setting up at extreme ranges to shoot animals.
please explain how it is different other than the target? If you can hit paper in the 10 ring why is that not good enough in your eyes to transfer to shooting an animal?

Keep in mind I am talking about a practiced shooter who isn't just shooting of a bench but practices long range in the same terrain and scenarios as you would find animals in.
 
please explain how it is different other than the target? If you can hit paper in the 10 ring why is that not good enough in your eyes to transfer to shooting an animal?

Keep in mind I am talking about a practiced shooter who isn't just shooting of a bench but practices long range in the same terrain and scenarios as you would find animals in.

Target or GONG!!! does not move while you are shooting at it. If you don't hit right where you are aiming it is not a big deal.

A live animal does move around and could take a step while you are about to shoot. If you don't hit where you were aiming it could mean a wounded animal that could get away (maybe some shooters don't feel this is a big deal but most hunters do feel it is a very big deal)

Google "best of the west Trophy Ridge Triple Play"
They get the rifle all set up for a young girl. The mule deer "live target" is supposed to be 525 yards away. I reckon she is "coached to squeeze the trigger" but the deer is moving when she shoots and she hits it back of the best area. Someone says "good shot baby" and they cut the scene so you don't see any more shooting.
 
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Target or GONG!!! does not move while you are shooting at it. If you don't hit right where you are aiming it is not a big deal.

A live animal does move around and could take a step while you are about to shoot. If you don't hit where you were aiming it could mean a wounded animal that could get away (maybe some shooters don't feel this is a big deal but most hunters do feel it is a very big deal)

Where's the line where that "can" and "can't" happen Duffy? What are your thoughts on archery hunting Duffy?
 
Target or GONG!!! does not move while you are shooting at it. If you don't hit right where you are aiming it is not a big deal.

A live animal does move around and could take a step while you are about to shoot. If you don't hit where you were aiming it could mean a wounded animal that could get away (maybe some shooters don't feel this is a big deal but most hunters do feel it is a very big deal)

Google "best of the west Trophy Ridge Triple Play"
They get the rifle all set up for a young girl. The mule deer "live target" is supposed to be 525 yards away. I reckon she is "coached to squeeze the trigger" but the deer is moving when she shoots and she hits it back of the best area. Someone says "good shot baby" and they cut the scene so you don't see any more shooting.
you are bringing other factors in to the equation that I simply did not ask in my question which I set the scenario for but thanks for your input.
 
please explain how it is different other than the target? If you can hit paper in the 10 ring why is that not good enough in your eyes to transfer to shooting an animal?

Keep in mind I am talking about a practiced shooter who isn't just shooting of a bench but practices long range in the same terrain and scenarios as you would find animals in.


The difference you ask about are the other factors that come into play weather you ask about them or not.
 
The difference you ask about are the other factors that come into play weather you ask about them or not.
they are a "what if" scenario, the "what if" for my question/scenario was the animal doesn't move for the shot.

the op that I quoted said he had great respect for target punchers only, well I hold a greater respect for those that put their skills to use in the field by putting food on their table for their families and then an even greater respect for those that defend our country........ they both IMO put their skills to better use than just punching paper in controlled settings.
 
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they are a "what if" scenario, the "what if" for my question/scenario was the animal doesn't move for the shot.

the op that I quoted said he had great respect for target punchers only, well I hold a greater respect for those that put their skills to use in the field by putting food on their table for their families and then an even greater respect for those that defend our country........ they both IMO put their skills to better use than just punching paper in controlled settings.
I believe that the primary reason that hunters don't take extreme long shots is "respect" to the animal for "humane reasons" where the margin of error is enhanced to further cripple a big game animal. Furthermore, what hunting skill is involved to aim and pull the trigger........what hunting still? This is what the majority of hunters who are commenting about on this thread..............don't you get it?
 
please explain how it is different other than the target? If you can hit paper in the 10 ring why is that not good enough in your eyes to transfer to shooting an animal?

Keep in mind I am talking about a practiced shooter who isn't just shooting of a bench but practices long range in the same terrain and scenarios as you would find animals in.

Well I said I'm done but I guess it is only fair that I answer your question.

In my view it is analogous to a race car driver. Setting the law aside for a minute, just because Michael Schumacher can drive on a different level doesn't mean he should drive like that on the street. I think the reasons why are pretty clear. Now I am not suggesting that a human life (racing) is somehow equal to an animal (hunting), but the underlying principle is that our views on the skill to do something doesn't exist in a vaccuum - it should be taken in context of the situation.

Now to be fair and because I have an open mind I did a little bit of digging to try and get some more facts. I was looking at the results for the 2013 DCRA results and considered F-Class, which looks to me like much heavier rifles than those used for hunting. Not to mention the rests used, which certainly look superior to a bipod. Furthermore it is obviously a range environment where elevation and terrain don't come into play. Plus, and correct me if I am wrong, there are wind flags on the range.

There were 34 competitors entered in the Coaches 900m (randomly chose a competition) shoot in 2013. From some reading I see the F-class 5 ring is 10" in diameter. Out of the 34 competitors 9 missed the 5 ring on the first shot - that means an over 26% miss rate on the first shot at a 10" diameter target.

Now move that target in to 1/2 that distance, 450m, and I would bet that every single first shot would have gone into the 5 ring - and likely in the V ring, right?

To me a 1st shot miss rate on game animals of 26% is not acceptable. IF that is representative of competative marksmen with gear designed for such competition under controlled situations, then what can be reasonably expected from highly skilled marksmen under hunting conditions?
 
Now to be fair and because I have an open mind I did a little bit of digging to try and get some more facts. I was looking at the results for the 2013 DCRA results and considered F-Class, which looks to me like much heavier rifles than those used for hunting. Not to mention the rests used, which certainly look superior to a bipod. Furthermore it is obviously a range environment where elevation and terrain don't come into play. Plus, and correct me if I am wrong, there are wind flags on the range.

There were 34 competitors entered in the Coaches 900m (randomly chose a competition) shoot in 2013. From some reading I see the F-class 5 ring is 10" in diameter. Out of the 34 competitors 9 missed the 5 ring on the first shot - that means an over 26% miss rate on the first shot at a 10" diameter target.

Did it indicate what the wind speed and direction was that day...I'm just curious as that sounds like a high miss rate.

To me a 1st shot miss rate on game animals of 26% is not acceptable.
When you compare it to something like archery, it's actually pretty much on par though. If you look at these stats out of Maryland in a 17 year study, archers wound 18% of the animals they shoot at and miss 11% so basically 29% of the first shots are bad. Is that acceptable to you?

http://www.marylandqdma.com/files/Download/Pedersen-31-34.pdf
 
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Well I said I'm done but I guess it is only fair that I answer your question.

In my view it is analogous to a race car driver. Setting the law aside for a minute, just because Michael Schumacher can drive on a different level doesn't mean he should drive like that on the street. I think the reasons why are pretty clear. Now I am not suggesting that a human life (racing) is somehow equal to an animal (hunting), but the underlying principle is that our views on the skill to do something doesn't exist in a vaccuum - it should be taken in context of the situation.

Now to be fair and because I have an open mind I did a little bit of digging to try and get some more facts. I was looking at the results for the 2013 DCRA results and considered F-Class, which looks to me like much heavier rifles than those used for hunting. Not to mention the rests used, which certainly look superior to a bipod. Furthermore it is obviously a range environment where elevation and terrain don't come into play. Plus, and correct me if I am wrong, there are wind flags on the range.

There were 34 competitors entered in the Coaches 900m (randomly chose a competition) shoot in 2013. From some reading I see the F-class 5 ring is 10" in diameter. Out of the 34 competitors 9 missed the 5 ring on the first shot - that means an over 26% miss rate on the first shot at a 10" diameter target.

Now move that target in to 1/2 that distance, 450m, and I would bet that every single first shot would have gone into the 5 ring - and likely in the V ring, right?

To me a 1st shot miss rate on game animals of 26% is not acceptable. IF that is representative of competative marksmen with gear designed for such competition under controlled situations, then what can be reasonably expected from highly skilled marksmen under hunting conditions?

Not really a fair comparison. I think if you told those target shooters they would get 50$ if they hit 5 ring but had to pay 150$ if they missed it, a couple might not take the shot. Risk vs reward.
 
Well I said I'm done but I guess it is only fair that I answer your question.

In my view it is analogous to a race car driver. Setting the law aside for a minute, just because Michael Schumacher can drive on a different level doesn't mean he should drive like that on the street. I think the reasons why are pretty clear. Now I am not suggesting that a human life (racing) is somehow equal to an animal (hunting), but the underlying principle is that our views on the skill to do something doesn't exist in a vaccuum - it should be taken in context of the situation.

Now to be fair and because I have an open mind I did a little bit of digging to try and get some more facts. I was looking at the results for the 2013 DCRA results and considered F-Class, which looks to me like much heavier rifles than those used for hunting. Not to mention the rests used, which certainly look superior to a bipod. Furthermore it is obviously a range environment where elevation and terrain don't come into play. Plus, and correct me if I am wrong, there are wind flags on the range.

There were 34 competitors entered in the Coaches 900m (randomly chose a competition) shoot in 2013. From some reading I see the F-class 5 ring is 10" in diameter. Out of the 34 competitors 9 missed the 5 ring on the first shot - that means an over 26% miss rate on the first shot at a 10" diameter target.

Now move that target in to 1/2 that distance, 450m, and I would bet that every single first shot would have gone into the 5 ring - and likely in the V ring, right?

To me a 1st shot miss rate on game animals of 26% is not acceptable. IF that is representative of competative marksmen with gear designed for such competition under controlled situations, then what can be reasonably expected from highly skilled marksmen under hunting conditions?
read my post again, because I am not talking about taking a bench rest shooter out of his comfort zone and giving him a diferent rifle to make the shot, I specifically said

Keep in mind I am talking about a practiced shooter who isn't just shooting of a bench but practices long range in the same terrain and scenarios as you would find animals in.
 
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