Huskemaw optics and the Best of the west clowns

[Brian46]

Wow. If you have to ask...

Forget about the difference between the perfect benchrest vs. even the best makeshift field set-up. Forget about the difference between a relaxed, calm shooter sitting at that rest vs. a "hunter" who is probably feeling the effects of somewhat elevated heartrate and breathing caused by excitement and/or exertion. Assume that the animal does not move and that a superhuman sheephunter can "know" that the critter will remain motionless. That same extraordinary perceptive ability will also allow the shooter to know the various wind speeds and directions along the bullet's flight path, as well as their cumulative effect on the projectile...after all, those wind flags at the rifle range are just for amateurs.

BUT...if you can't see a distinction between shooting at paper, where a miss is just a miss, vs. shooting at an animal where a miss can result in a wound and, at best, a difficult recovery effort and a period of suffering...

...again...wow.

thanks for going over the same things we covered a few pages back

however I find it interesting how you say a miss can result in a wounding shot, to me a miss is not hitting the animal, so a miss on paper is a miss on an animal or do you not apply the terms the same when you shoot at game and paper?

You will also find that people who long range hunt will practice out in the field, I actually practice in the areas I choose to do this type of hunting before and after the season so I know the ranges, wind, etc that I will encounter. I am also using the equipment I will hunt with, not some wildcat benchrest gun that has just enough energy left to make a hole in the paper at the end of it's flight. You have to select equipment for the job and know how to use it along with learning how to read wind using the landscape. Sure there are cheats like using a bigger caliber or faster bullet to negate or minimise the effects of wind but that is all learning.

The way some are talking on here is like every long range hunter went to the store and got sold a story that you can shoot 1500yds with a remmington 700 whatever and to buy the ammo at wallmart because they sell the good stuff.

 

[sheephunter]

A couple of things about your post:

[*]You presume that those who use archery equipment have a higher rate of wounding than those who use rifles.

No actually there are studies to back that up

•We are not talking about the gear - we are talking about going out of your way to make long shots and that applies to archery, centerfire, blackpowder...

I'd say we are talking gear here and some people go out of their way to use gear that increases the odds of wounding.

•Due to certain season restrictions it is either hunt with a bow or don't hunt - I suspect very few hunters hunt with a bow in rifle season.

But could the argument be made that we shouldn't have those seasons for the same reasons that long-range hunting is bad?

•They don't (yet) have archery hunting shows where they shoot at animals from +100 yards, do they?

Yup

I really have no interest in turning this into an anti archery thread as that certainly not my intent but I think it's important to compare the two, especially if you support one and not the other.

 

[1899]

you quoted one competition and that miss rate is very high in retrospect. without knowing all the details it is hard to take one example and apply it to every scenario

I don't compete so I don't know. The overall scores seemed good enough - but in a 10 shot string the miss rate of the 10" ring was 10% or so. Excellent shooting for sure. Many of the competitors were from the UK, so that might have something to do with the high initial miss rate!

And about the "miss" - to me a miss is when you miss the vital zone which can include a clean miss or a wound.

This thread really is taking up too much of my time.

Merry Christmas y'all!

 

[elkhunter44]

Sheep you keep bringing up the bow hunting and the simalarities with long range hunting...the HUGE difference to me would be with the novice hunters starting out...anyone with a pulse can get within 500 m of any given big game animal with there newly purchased long range rig...allthe optics companies are selling scopes with either reticles or turrets now and every Tom, #### and Harry are putting them on their rigs and now are long range hunters!

The same novice hunter will have one heck of a time getting within even a questionable bow shot because of everything that comes into play when you are hunting and not just shooting

 

[norskie]

I find when people speak for other people they rarely get it right and your statement is case in point. My position all along is that it's important have all the facts and apply them universally, not just where it suits your needs. We all hunt for different reasons and that needs to be respected but no question some ethics are universal....they just aren't always universally applied. If we want other ethics to become universal, well we better be prepared for them to indeed be universal.

like you putting the words in the bowhunter"s mouths a few pages back..

 

[sheephunter]

Sheep you keep bringing up the bow hunting and the simalarities with long range hunting...the HUGE difference to me would be with the novice hunters starting out...anyone with a pulse can get within 500 m of any given big game animal with there newly purchased long range rig...allthe optics companies are selling scopes with either reticles or turrets now and every Tom, #### and Harry are putting them on their rigs and now are long range hunters!

The same novice hunter will have one heck of a time getting within even a questionable bow shot because of everything that comes into play when you are hunting and not just shooting

No question archery takes more skill as a hunter to be successful and for those that have the personal desire to get up close and personal, it's a great option. But that may not be everyone's driving factor for hunting. I celebrate the fact that people hunt for many different reasons. Personally I hunt for a wide variety of reasons and typically making a quick/humane kill took a specific skill set that I've honed through lots of practice.....whether that be a close-range archery kill or a long range rifle kill. I certainly get satisfaction from both.

 

[norskie]

Sheep you keep bringing up the bow hunting and the simalarities with long range hunting...the HUGE difference to me would be with the novice hunters starting out...anyone with a pulse can get within 500 m of any given big game animal with there newly purchased long range rig...allthe optics companies are selling scopes with either reticles or turrets now and every Tom, #### and Harry are putting them on their rigs and now are long range hunters!

The same novice hunter will have one heck of a time getting within even a questionable bow shot because of everything that comes into play when you are hunting and not just shooting

Exactly.

 

[sheephunter]

like you putting the words in the bowhunter"s mouths a few pages back..

Facts frighten you don't they?

 

[norskie]

Facts frighten you don't they?

Show me some, I have yet to see many.

What I see is a difference in perception. And someone that really doesn't like other peoples ideas when they don't mesh with the direction he rolls.

 

[sheephunter]

Show me some, I have yet to see many.

What I see is a difference in perception. And someone that really doesn't like other peoples ideas when they don't mesh with the direction he rolls.

At that I'm guessing you have nothing more of substance to add to this discussion and with the bowing out of 1899, I suspect there isn't much more respectful and productive conversation to take place......I'll take his lead and say Merry Christmas y'all!

 

[medvedqc]

At that I'm guessing you have nothing more of substance to add to this discussion and with the bowing out of 1899, I suspect there isn't much more respectful and productive conversation to take place......I'll take his lead and say Merry Christmas y'all!

if only it was true ... you ll make me a firm believer in Xmas breaks and love ....

How come Tj on at least one another board your re not half of what you re here ?

all the best.

Phil

 

[track]

If you are a practiced and proficient shooter in the scenarios you will find game at in the wild like I have already stated, why are you bringing up the "humane" or "respect" argument? Is it because you have seen some guy try a long range poke with little to no knowledge or ability to make the shot? why paint everyone with this same brush? because that is what it appears that some people are doing by the posts here.

There are people capable of making long distance shots on animals and there are those that can barely spot an animal in the wild or those that will not bother to take more than 2 steps from their vehicle to hunt. This is why we have the legal regulations to follow in regards to hunting and you yourself get to choose within those regulations what you yourself are capable of doing in regards to taking a legal animal.

When I was born and nurtured by my loving parents I was taught good morals, values, ethics and standard of living. I wasn't born and raised with the bloody Wildlife Act and its hunting regulation thereto. If people have good ethics then respect and common sense is given to all without the need of the law books to know right from wrong, especially in this case.

 

[Brian46]

When I was born and nurtured by my loving parents I was taught good morals, values, ethics and standard of living. I wasn't born and raised with the bloody Wildlife Act and its hunting regulation thereto. If people have good ethics then respect and common sense is given to all without the need of the law books to know right from wrong, especially in this case.

I take it that you agree with my post then? or did your parents advise you against shooting animals at the distance they told you was "long range" so you will never try?

My parents intruduced me to hunting at a very young age and in the thirty or so years I have hunted with my mom and dad they have seen me hone my skills with both practice and technology in ways that was never available to them. We have tools today that they never dreamed of and the knowledge is out there to use them to their full potential.

I hope this isn't some attempt to say certain people who hunt certain ways were brought up wrong or their parents didn't do a good job in teaching them ethics. I have heard it all before and it is usually anti hunters going off the handle that hunting is wrong and my parents are cruel for teaching me at such a young age. I have heard it all before, just not from a fellow hunter.

 

[track]

From my perspective it's another aspect of hunting that seems to have nearly universal support...including my own support yet many that support it, oppose long-range shooting despite the fact that archery appears to score worse on the exact things long range shooting is being criticized for. I just think it's important to have some benchmarks when making ethical judgements and deciding what is and isn't acceptable to the general hunting population. To me the glass house analogy comes to mind. Wouldn't you agree? If we criticize long-range shooting for a perceived high rate of wounding, increased recovery time, etc...how can we support archery?

The main difference between bow hunting and long range shooting is just that. The bow hunters are "hunting" and the long range shooters are just shooting, and not hunting. When conducting any type of action in life there are unwritten laws of ethics between the lines of the actual/legal laws. However and unfortunately ethics place a backseat roll.

 

[Brian46]

The main difference between bow hunting and long range shooting is just that. The bow hunters are "hunting" and the long range shooters are just shooting, and not hunting. When conducting any type of action in life there are unwritten laws of ethics between the lines of the actual/legal laws. However and unfortunately ethics place a backseat roll.

so you believe there is no hunting skill used just because an animal is shot at a long distace?

do you oppose people who hunt with vehicles and atv's in the same manner as it takes no skill? or do you use one yourself from time to time?

You could debate what is and isn't a skill in regards to hunting till you are blue in the face and it still just ends up being just your opinion untill it is written in to regulation.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

How is this thread still going????

How about them optics?

 

[lefty-Cunuck]

I prefer Sightron....but I am also a big bad bow hunter so what do I know.

LC

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

The main difference between bow hunting and long range shooting is just that. The bow hunters are "hunting" and the long range shooters are just shooting, and not hunting. When conducting any type of action in life there are unwritten laws of ethics between the lines of the actual/legal laws. However and unfortunately ethics place a backseat roll.

Have you ever TRIED any long range hunting? Or are you another 1 of the armchair experts? It is not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is.
Ethics are personal bars set by the individuals. I have seen both highs and lows in ALL forms of hunting, to paint all of 1 style of hunters as being with lower ethical standards is retarded.
I bow hunt and I long range hunt, they skill sets for each are totally different yet just as demanding, the ethics however remain the same.
More often than not I end up with very few tags being filled, and not from a lack of possibilities of taking a shot.

This ethics crap should never be discussed on the net, just like religion. Who is ever pure enough to cast the first stone?

 

[track]

Have you ever TRIED any long range hunting? Or are you another 1 of the armchair experts? It is not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is.
Ethics are personal bars set by the individuals. I have seen both highs and lows in ALL forms of hunting, to paint all of 1 style of hunters as being with lower ethical standards is retarded.
I bow hunt and I long range hunt, they skill sets for each are totally different yet just as demanding, the ethics however remain the same.
More often than not I end up with very few tags being filled, and not from a lack of possibilities of taking a shot.

This ethics crap should never be discussed on the net, just like religion. Who is ever pure enough to cast the first stone?

"Long Range Hunting" You and Brian46 tell me what skill is involved with the "act" of hunting? Tell me an actual skill as defined in the definition of the Wildlife Act or dictionary?

 

[track]

so you believe there is no hunting skill used just because an animal is shot at a long distace?

do you oppose people who hunt with vehicles and atv's in the same manner as it takes no skill? or do you use one yourself from time to time?

You could debate what is and isn't a skill in regards to hunting till you are blue in the face and it still just ends up being just your opinion untill it is written in to regulation.

That's right, there is no hunting skill in long distance shooting/killing. Convince me otherwise.