Hybrid berger vs SMK's , what are your results?

Kelly Timoffee

Kelly Timoffee

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I will be loading for a new rig in 338 LM.

I have never loaded for something that has this type of long range potential.

I have used SMK's in various chamberings with very good results, I have also tried Berger VLD's target and hunting with mixed results.

Are these hybrid bullets less sensitive to seating depth or are they similar to the traditional VLD projectile?

What kind of velocities are shooters getting with these bullets?

What powders are working best? I am going to try Retumbo and H-1000

In my mind I very much think that the SMK's are the way to go just due to ease of tuning.
 
I share your thoughts exactly. I struggled to make 180gr Berger VLDs work in my 7WSM and while I finally got a good load going I took that load and put a 180gr SMK on to find out it was more accurate and faster! I am doing a new build (6SLR) and am building the rifle aroung the 105gr Berger Hybrid. By most of the accounts I have read, the Hybrid was designed specifically to be less sensitive to seating depth thus making it easier to load for.

I don't have any experience with the Hybrids but will try them first in my new build. I'll be following this thread closely.
 
Another thing that I have noticed is that when doing load development that the SMK's will generally always group better at all charge weights, Bergers are all over the board then you get lucky and hit a good one.
 
I have used Berger hybrids in 6, 6.5 and 7mm. In each and every case they shot most accurately when jammed 10 thou past first land contact... same as the VLD's. I don't care because they are damned accurate, but I was hoping the seating depth would be more forgiving. That's just me...
 
i shoot lots of 338 LM ive shot lots of SMK 300s and been happy enough. last time i want to get resuplyed there was none to be had, so got berger hyb 300s. they seem to be outpreforming my smks i hate sayin that cause im a smk fan, but bullet holes dont lie. i use H1000 for powder
 
paperslayer said:
I have used Berger hybrids in 6, 6.5 and 7mm. In each and every case they shot most accurately when jammed 10 thou past first land contact... same as the VLD's. I don't care because they are damned accurate, but I was hoping the seating depth would be more forgiving. That's just me...
Click to expand...

Too bad because most of my rounds are too long for the magazine if loaded close too the lands(especially VLDs) not to mention jammed. One day I'll get around to planning /building a custom where everything actually fits/works properly.
 
I've loaded lots 300gr SMK's in my old Rem 700P 338LM and had decent results with RL-22 and have just loaded my first batch of 300gr Hybrid's with US869 to use in my new rifle. I haven't had time to get out and test yet but they have a better BC than the SMK's so they should be better at distance. If these don't group well I'll be trying RL-22 and H1000 next.
I now have a DTA SRS which has a really long mag so I can load them right out to the lands and still feed from the mags and they are long, I'd have to pull out the reloading log to look up the COL but they look huge :)
Hoping they perform but I still have lots of 300 SMK's, Scenars and 285TSX sitting in the drawer if these don't work out.
 
I've shot both with great success! I prefer the Berger's for a few reasons. One is that they are much more stable when they go subsonic than the SMK's. I have found that the hybrids are not nearly as seating depth sensative as the VLD's. That being said, seating depth does make a difference in my experiance.

I currently use H1000 in my .338LM with Bergers because it's a little cleaner then Retumbo. I've also developed a load with 300 SMK's and US869. Both are solid 0.3 MOA.

SL
 
Well I ordered up 100 Hybrids to test.

Just hope I can get em to work while still fitting the magazine.Not the end of the world if they don't but would be nice.

Does anybody have the dimensions on these projectile or know where to find them?I have searched but can't really find anything but the older stuff.

I measure my magazine. 3.7658" edge to edge, so I think it may work out.

What are guys running for COAL?
 
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I wish I would've read this last night while I was at home... I have Bryan Litz's books and I would've been able to scan it and send it to you... I'll do that when I get home tonight.

I can tell you that the Berger 300 OTM's are one of the longest .338 projectiles out there. I can also tell you that the load I developed with the Bergers is too long for the magazine... They're somewhere around 3.9" OAL (I measure off of the ogive at 2.950"). However, you can get them to shoot really well at mag length, lots of people do. I chose to develope a long round.

I've posted both for your reference...

scan0001_zps5ce00c9f.jpg


scan0002_zps33dac3d7.jpg


SL
 
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Thanks SavageLapua for the diagrams.

Well I got a hold of Berger and they are saying to start with a .020" jump and work back from there.

Stated that there is NO need to jam the hybrids.

SO, looks like at this point the cartrdiges will be ok to fit the magazine.

With that greater bearing surface the Sierra's would have a higher pressure with equal charge would they not?
 
I would've thought so. But as per Hodgdon reload data for H1000, the SMK's max is 92gr. The load data I recieved from Berger has 84.3gr of H1000 listed as max. That being said, nearly everyone that I know/have talked to are loading the Bergers in the 87-92gr range. Which is where I am at, 92gr. Which yields a velocity of ~2750fps. When I did my load developement, I seated every bullet with exactly 0.010" jump. Found my upper node using the OCW method. I then fine tuned by adjusting seating depth in 0.010" increments. 5 rounds at 0.010", 0.020".... 0.100". OCW method again. Groups closed then opened up again. I found 0.030" jump to be ideal for my set up. 5 shot group at 0.596" CTC at 200y. I'm very pleased.

SL
 
I couldn't get the Berger hybrids to fit mag length on my savage bu was impressed with them out to a mile . I had good results with scenars but the hybrids were better at distance hands down
 
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