I must clarify some things here...........I have only shot 1/2 doz or so deer in my life as we don't have deer on license in the Yukon. Most of our animals are significantly larger except sheep, and seem less fragile than deer. This may have a lot to do with almost never experiencing a bang/flop from a body shot, except when I get both front shoulders. I have however experienced it a couple of times on the few deer I have taken. One thing I can tell you is that unless you smash both shoulders or make a CNS hit African game NEVER bang/flop.
Hydrostatic shock
- Thread starter powdergun
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Thinking back over the 45 or so years of my hunting experiences, I've never had a bang-flop big game animal get up and run off that I can remember...I haven't kept track of the number of big game animals that I've taken over the years but I think a safe estimate would be on the plus side of 120 (not including black bears). The vast majority of these animal have been shot with .284, .308, and .323 Magnum caliber rifles and plain old boring run of the mill cup and core bullets.
All animals taken, which include Deer, Moose, Elk, and Sheep have been in either Alberta or B.C.
I believe people over scrutinize their rifle, and bullet choices. IMHO, shot "placement" is the most important factor in determining the outcome of a hunting scenario.
cheers
All animals taken, which include Deer, Moose, Elk, and Sheep have been in either Alberta or B.C.
I believe people over scrutinize their rifle, and bullet choices. IMHO, shot "placement" is the most important factor in determining the outcome of a hunting scenario.
cheers
I don't aim for shoulders... it makes too much a mess of the carcass... my shots are all aimed squarely for the center of the lungs behind the shoulder... and on these shots I have never experienced a bang-flop... I have also never lost an animal... no lungs = no air, no air = no move... very far.
What caliber/bullet combination do you typically use? I ask because I get bang flops more often than not.
Me too. I aim for the "Armpit" it usually drops them fast.
The first bang flop I witnessed was when I was about 4 or 5... Dad shot a deer on our farm for a neighbor who needed some meat... it was about 50 yards with a 7 x 64 broadside right through the lungs. Bang-flop. I have had similar bang flops at close range. Longer range is more like bang shudder half step stagger step flop. My last moose at over 300 yards did not take 2 steps...
In cases like this I believe the higher velocity drops an animal faster than slower velocity... I do think it is the massive shock to the organs. Regardless, heart/lung shot game animals are dead quickly. Maybe not so much on dangerous game...
In cases like this I believe the higher velocity drops an animal faster than slower velocity... I do think it is the massive shock to the organs. Regardless, heart/lung shot game animals are dead quickly. Maybe not so much on dangerous game...
Wholeheartedly concur with you on this, hoytcanon. I never try to hit the shoulder because it ruins so much meat, especially if using bullets at high velocity.
Ted
Ditto, the only time I have aimed for a shoulder is when an immidiate anchoring shot was needed. Once on a wounded deer shot poorly by a hunting partner, twice on charging moose, twice on bear. So far it has always worked to stop forward movement. Other than that I use the lungs, and since the heart is a nice treat in this house, I prefer to keep it in tact for supper, although I have ruined quite a few of those over the years as well.
I prefer it coated and fried over stuffed, but heart any way is still my faveourite meat from game. Glad I am not the only one that likes heart, most people I have met wont way it!
They don't know what they are missing!
They don't know what they are missing!
I have had the privilege of hunting long enough and in game-rich areas, that I have been
able to shoot a considerable number of game animals.
I have a number, but it would raise eyebrows, so will not post it.
The large majority of these have been shot in the heart/lung area.
While bang-flops have occurred, they are not in the majority, by far.
Most have been accompanied by a few steps, a short run, or even a bit longer run.
Only one animal has managed to escape, to be recovered the next day. [my fault, entirely!]
I am not concerned at all if my animal does not drop in it's tracks.
If I am confident the shot hit where it was supposed to, the animal is not long for this world.
I have shot 40 Elk. Of that number, only 3 dropped where they stood. One made it about 80 yards.
The rest moved from 10 feet to 55 yards or so. Most were shot through the lungs.
Moose are odd critters. Frequently when shot in the lungs, they will stand around, acting as if nothing happened.
Then when they decide to move, they just tip over, dead, lol.
I have a firm belief in the proper placement of the FIRST shot on any animal. I make that my goal.
Regards, Eagleye.
able to shoot a considerable number of game animals.
I have a number, but it would raise eyebrows, so will not post it.
The large majority of these have been shot in the heart/lung area.
While bang-flops have occurred, they are not in the majority, by far.
Most have been accompanied by a few steps, a short run, or even a bit longer run.
Only one animal has managed to escape, to be recovered the next day. [my fault, entirely!]
I am not concerned at all if my animal does not drop in it's tracks.
If I am confident the shot hit where it was supposed to, the animal is not long for this world.
I have shot 40 Elk. Of that number, only 3 dropped where they stood. One made it about 80 yards.
The rest moved from 10 feet to 55 yards or so. Most were shot through the lungs.
Moose are odd critters. Frequently when shot in the lungs, they will stand around, acting as if nothing happened.
Then when they decide to move, they just tip over, dead, lol.
I have a firm belief in the proper placement of the FIRST shot on any animal. I make that my goal.
Regards, Eagleye.
alberta_outdoors
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- Fairview, Alberta
I have a weird one. One year I shot a moose at about 150yds with a 30-06 shooting winchester 150gr powerpoints. It was running away from me at a pretty sharp angle. The bullet entered at about the 2nd or 3rd last rib and exited through the front of the shoulder blade on the opposite side. The moose made it about another 40yds before keeling over. A week later I got my whitetail at about 75yds. Slightly quartering away. Bullet entered just behind the shoulder and stopped after breaking the opposite shoulder blade. Deer DRT. I was shooting the same thing as with the moose so I'm asking for suggestions on what stopped the bullet from that close. I've hit deer and moose closer and farther away and never had one that wasn't a pass through with my 30-06. Oh ya...absolutely jellied the front quarters on the whitetail at that range.
.308 with max 168 BTHP and 180 Interbond reloads... .30/30 AI with max 150 NBT reloads, 7mm-08 with 140 NBT reloads, .243 with 85 Interbond max loads etc... etc...
My feeling is this... "I am NOT looking for a Bang-Flop." I am looking for a cleanly and humanely harvested animal with the least damage to the carcass as possible... 25 years ago I shot a doe in the last minutes of light on the final day of the season... she was sneaking out of the swamp and would have made it, except I had waded back in to the flooded timber and climbed twenty feet into an old swamp oak using tree spurs... to me it appeared that she was feeding as she walked, at 90 yards, I found an opening in the brush and aimed squarely at the lungs and fired... I was surprised as heck when she dropped on the spot, without so much as a kick... I figured that I had missed and hit the spine or shoulders... but on skinning her out it turned out she had been shot three times already... my shot did indeed square the lungs and was the final straw for the poor old girl... she had one bullet pass through the middle of her neck side to side, she had another through the brisket right in the bottom of the chest cavity, and a third bullet had hit her left shoulder at a "quartering-on" angle and deflect down along her side... she was seriously messed up and I was happy to cleanly end the situation she was in... later my dad and I discussed the situation and we both agreed that there had been no shots in our area since 11:00 am that morning... she had been alive and kicking for at least 6 hours in that condition and was still on her feet when I saw her... there are alot of things that can go wrong on various placement/shot angles that hunters are presented with... contrast that with the LARGE target area of a broadside lung shot, the LIGHT bone structure in the area and the VITAL tissue in the cavity... EVERY single broadside lung shot I have taken has resulted in a clean kill, and a short tracking job, whether with gun or bow (I have taken far more with a bow)... but to this day... that poor doe was the only DRT/ Bang-Flop I have seen from a broadside lung shot (without striking a major bone in addition)... as I said earlier, they don't go far, there is always a great blood trail... and it is likely that they die without ever knowing they were hit... I like that.
I would say "fast" too... but not Bang-Flop.
PLUS TEN on the above quote...
As I said... I don't WANT bang-flops... ain't gearing up for BF's... ain't AIMING for BF's...
Would you suggest I hunt moose, whitetails and black bear with a .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .458 Win??? How about .45/120? Heck I don't even want to shoot LA's... and ditched a Whelen, cause "me no likey!" My friend, my game is just as dead as yours... I ain't lost anything... and they are alot less messy to clean... which I like because I eat all my game.
I predict you will have continued success in your non-bang-flopping endevours.
I thought you were implying that since your animals didn't go straight down nobody's did, but I've been wrong before.
Nope, because with the bullets usually used in those calibers (I have them all BTW, and all but one of your list) they aren't particularily quick killers of little stuff.
For the Canadian portion of my hunting this year I used a .300 Win with 180 NBTs @ 3100fps, a 7STW with 160 accubonds @3300 fps, and .338 Edge lumbering along @ 2830 fps with 300 grain Sierras. One moose, one mountain goat, and 3 deer. 4 out of 5 (80%) were straight down although three of those didn't even bother to flop. The goat staggered around for a bit before falling off the mountain. Three out of four moose on that trip were dropped neatly with my .300 and a couple .338 Wins. The last had a real nice, well placed 4 shot group on his ribs. .308 Win with 165s if you're interested..
I thought you were implying that since your animals didn't go straight down nobody's did, but I've been wrong before.Nope, because with the bullets usually used in those calibers (I have them all BTW, and all but one of your list) they aren't particularily quick killers of little stuff.
For the Canadian portion of my hunting this year I used a .300 Win with 180 NBTs @ 3100fps, a 7STW with 160 accubonds @3300 fps, and .338 Edge lumbering along @ 2830 fps with 300 grain Sierras. One moose, one mountain goat, and 3 deer. 4 out of 5 (80%) were straight down although three of those didn't even bother to flop. The goat staggered around for a bit before falling off the mountain. Three out of four moose on that trip were dropped neatly with my .300 and a couple .338 Wins. The last had a real nice, well placed 4 shot group on his ribs. .308 Win with 165s if you're interested..
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I had the strangest thing happen with a mule deer buck that I shot a couple years ago. The shot was a touch over 300 meters with him standing broadside, I steadied up with my 300wsm pushing a 208gr amax and placed one right in the middle of he boiler room. He went staight down on his side like he got hit by a car! When I got up to him I was shocked to discover that the bullet didnt even make it through the front side rib! It exploded on the hide but in the process it delived enough energy to rip the front side shoulder right off, and there was a chunck of coagulated blood 12" long hanging from its mouth.
Have shot a couple more since with the same bullet but at closer distance. Both had 1 1/4" entrance holes and tremendous exit holes....bullet sounded like it hit a rock! None of these deer have taken a single step...I have switched to the 165 Gmx however....only because I fear if I havea shot that is off by a little bit I might hit a shoulder and lose an animal.
Have shot a couple more since with the same bullet but at closer distance. Both had 1 1/4" entrance holes and tremendous exit holes....bullet sounded like it hit a rock! None of these deer have taken a single step...I have switched to the 165 Gmx however....only because I fear if I havea shot that is off by a little bit I might hit a shoulder and lose an animal.
