I didn't think I was a n00b until I moved to Ontario
- Thread starter 1VP25mm
- Start date
Really? CFO's are governed Federally, aren't they? Just enforcing federal legislation provincially? I didn't know they could make province specific rules such as range rules...
It's not a matter of being up to my 'standards', but the more I hear from Ontario, the more I cringe. Ban this, ban that, rules this, rules that.
By my standard 2 of 20 would have passed? You're not getting my point. Those with licenses already have proven (to the government at least) that they're responsible enough to safely discharge firearms.
Most people need to be shown how to do things? How the hell did you get your firearms license or driving license? Should you have to take a special course to drive on the TCH, despite proving you're safe and responsible enough by having a valid driver's license? You'd think that's ridiculous right? Cars take a hell of a lot more lives than firearms, making them more 'dangerous'. Yet, you're all for additional club crap?
If you have a valid license for the class of firearm that you're using, then you've been taught enough safety. Arm it with common sense, follow what you've learned and what's in your book and that's plenty. To defer someone from shooting because of club specific programs is hogwash.
MPI
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa/NCR
Honestly the problem has more to do with the Fudds then the CFO's. When at the range you shoot the s**t on the rules and regs more then you are shooting paper you are a Fudd...
BAN THE FUDDS.
Of course the only way to do this is run for the executive and modernize your range.
More honestly I stopped going to the range because its more fun to go into the back 40's and shoot pop cans with a 10/22 then it is to shoot pistol with some IPSC/IPDA guru barking and doing hand stands on how the firing line should be run...
BAN THE FUDDS.
Of course the only way to do this is run for the executive and modernize your range.
More honestly I stopped going to the range because its more fun to go into the back 40's and shoot pop cans with a 10/22 then it is to shoot pistol with some IPSC/IPDA guru barking and doing hand stands on how the firing line should be run...
MPI
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa/NCR
Dp...
MPI
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa/NCR
There should be one standard, it should be federal - end of story.
Clubs rules above federal/provincial/municipal like liability/insurance are a cop out and untrue. No one has yet been able to explain to me why liability/insurance is different range to range in Ontario.
Clubs rules above federal/provincial/municipal like liability/insurance are a cop out and untrue. No one has yet been able to explain to me why liability/insurance is different range to range in Ontario.
Consistency across the country is required I agree. But seeing that a range is private property, I see no reason why a simple course consisting of range rules, some quick Q and A and ONE live fire session to prove you can practice what you preach can't be accomodated. This seems reasonable to me. I do not like some of the longer probationary periods of 10 live shoots with a BOD member and some such bull####, but this is not a federal requirement. These are club requirements made by club membership. The feds and province have no say in this.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the fuddy duddy paperwork that benefits no one. Most club rules and everything the ontario CFO does is bull####. There should be one federal CFO and that is it. The club rules though as private enterprise need to be left to their own devices. If you don't like it, join another club, or better yet, start your own. I would love to join a nice relaxed club, with simple meaningful rules and no fuddy duddy bull####. But given that I did not buy the land, build the range, build the clay games centre and two clubhouses as well as staff the club, nor could I afford to if I tried, I will put up with whatever rules the owner of the private club deem fit for it. If it were my club, I would do whatever I felt was right so I can only accept the same from the current owners.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the fuddy duddy paperwork that benefits no one. Most club rules and everything the ontario CFO does is bull####. There should be one federal CFO and that is it. The club rules though as private enterprise need to be left to their own devices. If you don't like it, join another club, or better yet, start your own. I would love to join a nice relaxed club, with simple meaningful rules and no fuddy duddy bull####. But given that I did not buy the land, build the range, build the clay games centre and two clubhouses as well as staff the club, nor could I afford to if I tried, I will put up with whatever rules the owner of the private club deem fit for it. If it were my club, I would do whatever I felt was right so I can only accept the same from the current owners.
Currently a member of DSC here in Newfoundland.
Do I think someone has a license is safe? Nope. Do I think half a day of 'range orientation crap' will make the guy more safe? Certainly not. I used to be in the CF, and even after all the crap that I went through, training wise... we still had negligent discharges, major range issues, people treating rifles like sticks swinging them about.
You will not persuade me to believe that mandatory 'safety' time at the range will fix the issue. Furthermore, the original poster is more than trained and should have been exempt from the whole "You must obey our special rules or you don't shoot" crap.
As far as I'm concerned, every range in Canada should conform to the same current rules and none of this private range legislation crap. We all agree that we're regulated enough, no? An extra couple of hours is not going to fix safety issues.
- Location
- 300 km northeast of Thunder Bay
Since when does anything to do with firearms make sense in Canada, but welcome aboard. It's a great place to rant.
- Location
- Near Saskatoon Saskatchewan
I was there!!
I have been posted there and the ranges are higher than heaven. Waiting for a coarse for five months is pathetic of that range and then to be "checked out" by there range officer who may or may not know the drills? Five months, a friend waited eight months and not for good reason.
You should be able to challenge the course and pass knowing all drills with confidence I have watched people take the course and still not have confidence in there weapon operation/safety drills.
Would this be the Barrie Range.
I have been posted there and the ranges are higher than heaven. Waiting for a coarse for five months is pathetic of that range and then to be "checked out" by there range officer who may or may not know the drills? Five months, a friend waited eight months and not for good reason.You should be able to challenge the course and pass knowing all drills with confidence I have watched people take the course and still not have confidence in there weapon operation/safety drills.
Would this be the Barrie Range.
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- Location
- Near Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Move west buy a farm, shoot all you want. :0)))
If you think that part of a day's safety routines will keep them away from you, think again. Bad shooters are like criminals. There's nothing you can really do to curb the carelessness/criminal activity. They are who they are. They are even in LE organizations and the CF.
You should be able to challenge the course and pass knowing all drills with confidence I have watched people take the course and still not have confidence in there weapon operation/safety drills.
Exactly.
Fry I am a safe hunter and shooter I should not have to take any courses because I said I was.
Great Idea if you don't want to take our course don't ##### just wait till you get back to your home range,problem solved.
If you weed out one unsafe shooter at the club that is great.
Dsc Discovery Shooting Club near Elliston?
Great Idea if you don't want to take our course don't ##### just wait till you get back to your home range,problem solved.
If you weed out one unsafe shooter at the club that is great.
Dsc Discovery Shooting Club near Elliston?
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smtm
CGN Regular
- Location
- Ottawa valley
CROWCA; If you weed out one unsafe shooter at the club that is great. [/QUOTE said:
When I put in my membership for the club (in Alberta) to which I currently belong, I had to wait two whole days before attending an introductory brief by one of the directors. I could have gone the same day, but I was busy. In the brief, they covered safety for pistol, shotgun, rifle and arrow ranges. I felt after that briefing (1/2 hour) that this was good enough for nearly everyone...
//BEGIN RANT//
Now the rant...every time we put another hurdle between the general public and us, we make gun ownership that much more "exclusive". The more we make ownership "exclusive", the more we risk becoming pariahs rather than average members of society with an interesting hobby. The more exclusive you are the less trusted you are. Now I know that we gun owners are not to blame, but I am dismayed by all the RSOs who are standing up and proudly beating their chests about a mandatory safety course that everyone else manages to get along without and not get shot. I am all for safety, but a 1/2 hour common sense briefing beats a formal course if it accomplishes the aim. As background, I enjoyed many years in the CF where many a 1/2 hour briefing got converted into a three day course for no reason.
Point number two. Guns are dangerous if used improperly. Noted. So are ride-on lawnmowers and MIG welders...but you don't see the 15 year old stock boy at Canadian Tire giving check rides on them before they get loaded in the back of the pickup truck. Despite all of us "Wild" Albertans not having the mandatory course, we still manage not to shoot each other at the range!
I believe the club owes its new members a safety brief and whatever instruction they deem necessary for that individual to maintain the standard of safety. I find the idea of a unilateral Ontario-imposed bit of bureaucracy repugnant. When does it stop? - when it becomes a 6 week full time course run at some Government Conference Centre and costs $5,000?
//END RANT//
So anyway, I know you guys in Ontario are trapped somewhere where the Government wants to wipe your a$$ for you and inspect for cleanliness. It's not your fault - I feel for you guys! Enjoy...Plenty of room out here in God's country if you find a U-Haul.
//BEGIN RANT//
Now the rant...every time we put another hurdle between the general public and us, we make gun ownership that much more "exclusive". The more we make ownership "exclusive", the more we risk becoming pariahs rather than average members of society with an interesting hobby. The more exclusive you are the less trusted you are. Now I know that we gun owners are not to blame, but I am dismayed by all the RSOs who are standing up and proudly beating their chests about a mandatory safety course that everyone else manages to get along without and not get shot. I am all for safety, but a 1/2 hour common sense briefing beats a formal course if it accomplishes the aim. As background, I enjoyed many years in the CF where many a 1/2 hour briefing got converted into a three day course for no reason.
Point number two. Guns are dangerous if used improperly. Noted. So are ride-on lawnmowers and MIG welders...but you don't see the 15 year old stock boy at Canadian Tire giving check rides on them before they get loaded in the back of the pickup truck. Despite all of us "Wild" Albertans not having the mandatory course, we still manage not to shoot each other at the range!
I believe the club owes its new members a safety brief and whatever instruction they deem necessary for that individual to maintain the standard of safety. I find the idea of a unilateral Ontario-imposed bit of bureaucracy repugnant. When does it stop? - when it becomes a 6 week full time course run at some Government Conference Centre and costs $5,000?
//END RANT//
So anyway, I know you guys in Ontario are trapped somewhere where the Government wants to wipe your a$$ for you and inspect for cleanliness. It's not your fault - I feel for you guys! Enjoy...Plenty of room out here in God's country if you find a U-Haul.
Hmmm. All of our ranges get inspected the same as everyone else's ranges. Same rules - funny that - must be the Federal Government or something. We also had a berm height issue that needed fixing. Sorry - no box on a stick - we hillbillies actually have to conform to the same Fed standards.
Yes, every range has safety rules. I'm sorry, but it doesn't take a formal course to impart the knowledge lips to ears in the sitting position facing a screen full of PowerPoint. Ours are written down and passed out as part of the membership package (and are also available on the web site...yes, we do have electricity and modern appliances out here, too!)
I originally thought this was a local range thing, which is why I believed it was a "knob" issue. Now that I have found out that it is an Ontario CFO thing, I no longer believe you or any of the range operators are "knobs". I DO, however, find it interesting that you are a willing and active proponent for this course that no other province in the Great Dominion deems necessary. As I said, I am all for safety, but you can't legislate (or teach courses) on common sense, no matter how hard you try!
The club safety rules need to be published. New members need to be shown around and have the safety elements of the range briefed, shown and, where applicable, demonstrated. In daily shooting, each member is responsible for observing and enforcing the safety standards. Simple as that. People who don't meet the safety standards are asked to leave.
Same safety standard as the 9 other provinces, no 1/2 day course.
Anyway, too bad for Ontario shooters. Hope things change!
I'm still wondering what gives a particular province's CFO authority to govern rules provincially? I thought they only existed to enforce Federal legislation?
Yup, sorta like whatcha hear from the anti's... Well if a gun ban saves ONE life... or if the gun registry saves just ONE life... it's worth the 2 billion! Meanwhile, like Tony mentioned, 2 billion bucks salting and sanding our sidewalks would have saved more lifes.
Incidents happen from responsible shooters as well as irresponsible ones. Again, learning to rid carelessness within one's self does NOT occur over a brief 4 hour safety orientation course.
A waste of time, money and energy. We have careless drivers, no? They take a safety course. They can keep taking it until they 'pass' it. Does that course make them better drivers? Should they have to take a different safety course for every different highway or municipal road they choose to drive on?
Useless regulations these are and nothing more.
Oh, and yes, I do shoot at DSC in Elliston.
Yup, sorta like whatcha hear from the anti's... Well if a gun ban saves ONE life... or if the gun registry saves just ONE life... it's worth the 2 billion! Meanwhile, like Tony mentioned, 2 billion bucks salting and sanding our sidewalks would have saved more lifes.
Incidents happen from responsible shooters as well as irresponsible ones. Again, learning to rid carelessness within one's self does NOT occur over a brief 4 hour safety orientation course.
A waste of time, money and energy. We have careless drivers, no? They take a safety course. They can keep taking it until they 'pass' it. Does that course make them better drivers? Should they have to take a different safety course for every different highway or municipal road they choose to drive on?
Useless regulations these are and nothing more.
Oh, and yes, I do shoot at DSC in Elliston.
You must not have shot next to many shooters if you think bad shooters don't frequently squeeze past those ridiculous programs.
After weeks of training, I've seen recruits in the CF still have negligent discharges, practice very unsafe practices, etc.
Education is good yes... but when it teeters on being borderline ridiculous, it serves only as yet another hurdle we have to deal with.
