I don't understand the "Glock Advantage"...
- Thread starter mini15
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I agree with external safetys on long guns, and use them religiously. Because they have no holsters, their triggers are exposed while shotguns/rifles are loaded and slung.
I've never once had to holster a pistol so quickly that I could not do so without first taking my finger off the trigger, and deliberately holster it loaded.
this is the exact issue with all of this, think that people who shot themselves is not from the lack of manual safety...... this is the exact fonction of a manual safety, avoid that kind of accident........
- did not clear the gun .... n/a because accident with police officer were on live responding 911 calls.....
- did not insp that the gun was clear....... read above.....
- Partner did not insp the gun properly......... read above......
- point gun in unsafe direction......duuhhhhh, this is exactly the point on why/when a manual safety should be on every gun !!!! yep!!
- put finger on the trigger .......read above....
- pull the trigger .....read above.....
come on guys !!!!! let go that crap !!!!!! a provide a real true argument !!!!!!!!
P.S.: based on the above info, that kind of accident would not hapenned if police officer would have Tokarevs in their holsters....
Well no sh*t it wouldn't happen if he had a tokarev. Those things wont fire a round even when you pull the trigger, no discharge at all means no negligent discharge, and it's hefty for a pistol so you can conk them on the head when it fails to fire
To the OP part of it is a marketing pitch but the glock does have internal passive safeties that prevent drop firing, or other accidental discharges. The only way to get the gun to go off is to pull the trigger. It's no longer a unique feature now that sig DAK and HK LEM has light pull daos that have no manual safety. The way I see it, a manual safety is another protruding part that can get snagged on the draw. The lack of it is an advantage, if you ran a 1911 cocked and not locked I would check your mental sanity. Glock is no longer the only safe action system, but hey it's a marketing line that helps sell an excellent pistol. So why not?
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this is the exact issue with all of this, think that people who shot themselves is not from the lack of manual safety...... this is the exact fonction of a manual safety, avoid that kind of accident........
- did not clear the gun .... n/a because accident with police officer were on live responding 911 calls.....
- did not insp that the gun was clear....... read above.....
- Partner did not insp the gun properly......... read above......
- point gun in unsafe direction......duuhhhhh, this is exactly the point on why/when a manual safety should be on every gun !!!! yep!!
- put finger on the trigger .......read above....
- pull the trigger .....read above.....
come on guys !!!!! let go that crap !!!!!! a provide a real true argument !!!!!!!!
P.S.: based on the above info, that kind of accident would not hapenned if police officer would have Tokarevs in their holsters....
If he was dumb enough to make all the mistake I pointed out, then what makes you think he would be smart enough to even use a manual safety properly
Well no sh*t it wouldn't happen if he had a tokarev. Those things wont fire a round even when you pull the trigger, no discharge at all means no negligent discharge, and it's hefty for a pistol so you can conk them on the head when it fails to fire
again, out of the subject, let go the crap guys.........,.......you don't know what your are talking ....
)lollll,....
ok, let's replace the Tok by a Beretta 92fs, now what ?
Whether you train with your gun or not, having extra features and levers are a disadvantage when things GO WRONG. Shooting old fart style at the range, it does not matter, you will not see a difference. If levers and extra parts would not make a difference, LE agencies would be using revolvers.
Close your eyes for a second and think you are a police officer, you are in gun fight/bank robbery/ whatever. You gun malfunctions, at this point in time, having a safety will require you to check another part in the firearm, that after you rack the slide to chamber another round, most likely you will go and feel that the safety is switched off, this, will take an extra few seconds or less, all will depend on your speed and training, and a (few) extra second(s) can cost you your life.
Simplicity is an advantage when your heart rate is up, adrenalin rushing through your veins. Every decision you make takes a milisecond but feels like an eternity. Less is more.
I see the simplicity as a benefit in a real worst case scenario, and this is proven by how many police officers choose to carry the G option against other more classic and old designs. I have not heard of accidental discharges that includes deaths in a long time. There are a few in Youtube, although I am sure none of those include a fatality.
Now days, single action only law enforcement guns as the glock, have over 10 LBS trigger pull, this is a legal requirement and are know as NY-triggers (I think to being first implemented in New York, but do not take me on that).
I do not shoot Glock, and I doubt I will ever shoot one. I have tried them, they are fine. I like their simplicity not only in the exterior design but also how easy is to swap parts in the case something breaks. Most likely, anybody with half a brain will get the Glock working, whereas for instance, the HK LEM option of the GLOCK will take a more elaborate gunsmithing approach & tools.
Close your eyes for a second and think you are a police officer, you are in gun fight/bank robbery/ whatever. You gun malfunctions, at this point in time, having a safety will require you to check another part in the firearm, that after you rack the slide to chamber another round, most likely you will go and feel that the safety is switched off, this, will take an extra few seconds or less, all will depend on your speed and training, and a (few) extra second(s) can cost you your life.
Simplicity is an advantage when your heart rate is up, adrenalin rushing through your veins. Every decision you make takes a milisecond but feels like an eternity. Less is more.
I see the simplicity as a benefit in a real worst case scenario, and this is proven by how many police officers choose to carry the G option against other more classic and old designs. I have not heard of accidental discharges that includes deaths in a long time. There are a few in Youtube, although I am sure none of those include a fatality.
Now days, single action only law enforcement guns as the glock, have over 10 LBS trigger pull, this is a legal requirement and are know as NY-triggers (I think to being first implemented in New York, but do not take me on that).
I do not shoot Glock, and I doubt I will ever shoot one. I have tried them, they are fine. I like their simplicity not only in the exterior design but also how easy is to swap parts in the case something breaks. Most likely, anybody with half a brain will get the Glock working, whereas for instance, the HK LEM option of the GLOCK will take a more elaborate gunsmithing approach & tools.
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How many gun fights you been in? You dont know how you will react under stress. Range stress or competiton stress is not the same as life or death having someone shooting at you.
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I agree with you that the likelihood of error is greater with AIWB for the Glock. However, I would carry a Glock AIWB but only after a couple thousand dry fire AIWB presentations. And then only after I was confident I could do it safely.
But I'd do the same if I carried a 1911 too. I don't tend to think that a thumb safety guarantees you a proper safe AIWB presentation. It may give a little more safety, but it depends on when the user thumbs his safety off.
I'm sure you have practiced your draw stroke extensively, but there are too many shooters carrying AIWB without enough practice IMO.
Edit: I re-read your post now that I had a little more time and I tend to agree with your comment on the safety. Part of my original statement I didn't think through as thoroughly as I could. I still believe part of the Glocks advantage over other pistols of similar reliability and cost, is it's consistent trigger.
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I like Glock. Some hates Glock. So be it. For a pistol that some criticized for no safety, it is THE SAFEST gun in the market because you are very cognizant of that you are the safety. If you cant be cognizant of Glock's 'safety' feature, then get a pistol that suits your need.
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definitely not the same stress. Never been in a gun fight and I hope never to be in one. I have competed several times and shooting with great shooters that made me push the envelope to get faster (IDPA) and having a simple platform to deal with makes a big difference. I can see that working the same way in real life. That is what IDPA (international DEFENSIVE pistol assoc) is for, to try your platform and to train with worst case scenarios and threats. Not the same as real life stress for sure, but at least you know by comparison how long a gun fight could last for and how every second counts.
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That's also what I think. Their marketing department was probably thinking about "simplicity/rapidity" advantage. I must admit that's it's not a big advantage lol
again, out of the subject, let go the crap guys.........,.......you don't know what your are talking ....
lollll,....
ok, let's replace the Tok by a Beretta 92fs, now what ?
I may not know what I am talking about, but I will keep my ability to construct a coherent sentence. And if you think a tok holds a candle to a glock as a modern service pistol you definitely are missing a few bolts mate. It's a great old surplus pistol but really? It holds nothing to any modern service pistol. Might want to work on that. And so what? You replaced an old pile with a new pile of dog turd, what point are you trying to make? The most important safety is the user, if the user messes up that could lead to a negligent discharge, or in a life/death situation the safety staying on.
I may be out to lunch but maybe you can explain why so many ex and current sf select glocks as their personal sidearm of choice.
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The advantage of a glock is that if it is drawn from the holster, it is ready to shoot. With an external safety that is not necessarily the case for a person who does not practise presenting and firing their sidearm with regularity like most avid pistol shooters do.
The above of course only applies if the gun is holstered with a round in the chamber.
Most people greatly overestimate how much the average LEO or mil guy practies with their sidearm.
Remember that 99% of police interactions happen without the use of force of any kind, let alone shooting somebody.
The above of course only applies if the gun is holstered with a round in the chamber.
Most people greatly overestimate how much the average LEO or mil guy practies with their sidearm.
Remember that 99% of police interactions happen without the use of force of any kind, let alone shooting somebody.
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