I feel like a gopher these days

BadAsMo

BadAsMo

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I feel like a gopher these days hiding in a hole, every once in a while to poke my head out into the light beaming off the few 223 semi autos that are not on the restricted list. It’s never long before the whiff of impending restriction/prohibition doom triggers me to duck quietly back down into my awkward hole.

There’s only a few 223 semi autos that turn my crank and here they are in order of preference.
1) Tavor
2) XCR
3) Mini 14

Financially speaking I should just grab a Mini 14 and drop it simply because I’d have the smallest financial exposure. On the other hand the Tavor comes standard with the 1:7 twist which I feel is mandatory for a 223 semi auto. The XCR has a bit of a reputation for loosing screws but it feels most like an AR and is less radical in appearance than the Tavor and the XCR is available with the 1:7 barrel.

So I thought I’d throw this question out there…

Which of these rifles do you guys think would be the least likely to get reclassified and what is your opinion based on?
 
The mini 14, I don't think will ever become restricted.
There was a mass shooting in Quebec a long time ago, and the mini14 was the rifle used. The high capacity magazines were part of the ban, but not the rifle. I heard from somewhere, I don't recall where; the mini14 is used by aboriginal people to hunt seals, and therefor is a very touchy subject. If the mini14 was to get banned, it would remove the rifle being used for harvesting. It would become a big political mess.
I recently bought a Benelli MR1, as I don't think it will fall into any reclassification issues.
 
It doesn't matter, buy what you most want and enjoy it. If you fear reclassification and feel that it is inevitable, and you can't do anything about it, then don't buy anything and just gaze wistfully at those who are having fun. The more people that own these things, the harder it will be to ban them quietly.
 
Don't be paranoid, any one of them could get targeted next, don't let that stop you from enjoying today.

1:7 is far from mandatory. Since 90% or more of your shooting will probably be with 55gr bulk ammo anything up to a 1:9 would be fine and even a 1:9 will stabilize a 75gr projectile. I personally prefer a 1:8 twist for 223/5.56.

I hate the mini-14, the one I had (1987 production ranch rifle with 1:7 twist) was about as accurate at 100yds as my 9mm pistol. It was very reliable though as long as I used quality magazines.

I've shot a few Tavor's and while I do like them and think they are a well built rifle they just don't excite me enough to justify the price.

XCR is a crap shoot whether you get one with problems, they are backed by Wolverine's incredible support though so even if you get a problem one at least you know it will get fixed promptly.

You should also have a look at finding a used AR180B-2, I think they are the best non restricted value for under $2000, the one I had was just as accurate as any XCR or Tavor and was 100% reliable, they are very light weight as well. Aftermarket support is almost non existent but I like them best the way they come from the factory. Quadrails do nothing but add weight. A scope rail is about all one needs for one.

The Norinco Type-97 is another option as long as you don't mind spending $950 on a disposable rifle. Good luck getting warranty or parts support.

The HK SL8-4 is another option, they are expensive to customize but they are definitely the most accurate semi auto out there besides a high end AR.

Don't let fear stop you from jumping into the game. If everyone was to do that it would be easy for them to ban everything. The more people they stand to p!ss off by taking things away the more they think about the risk of losing those votes. One day they will try to disarm us, the more of us that are there to push back the longer we have.
 
ntm said:
My Herron rebarreled acr is quite a bit more accurate than my sl8 was.
Click to expand...

Not mine. But I'm still doing load development.
What ammo are you using to get sub moa with the ACR? My NR ACR has a Herron 1:8 twist with Wylde chamber, best I've gotten so far is about 1.5moa with PMC 62gr green tips and about 1.25moa with handloads.
 
I am curious too. I was on the fence for the last 3 years about what to buy. In the end, with encouragement from members here like cr5 I got off the pot and picked up an SL8. So far it is shooting about 1 MOA give or take .25 I hope to have more results tomorrow with handloads.

Moe
 
cr5 said:
Not mine. But I'm still doing load development.
What ammo are you using to get sub moa with the ACR? My NR ACR has a Herron 1:8 twist with Wylde chamber, best I've gotten so far is about 1.5moa with PMC 62gr green tips and about 1.25moa with handloads.
Click to expand...

Ivi brass, hornady 75 grain bthp, vv n140 powder, Winchester primer.
In load testing with .2 grain jumps it went .8,.7,.67,.7,.8 moa in one spot. Five round groups. That's a very healthy accuracy node.
Heck, even fiocchi factory loaded 40 grain v-max is shooting right at 1 moa.

My sl8 was closer to 1.5 moa with most factory loads, and just barely sub moa with hand loads, although not consistently.
 
I personally really liked the Tavor. These are far from my style of rifle, but after shooting one my buddy just bought, I thought it was awesome. And between 1.5-2.0 at 100 was beyond my expectation. Way beyond. I was thinking it would be 3-4" at best. Can't wait to try some quality ammo in this thing and see what it can or can't do. We did some plinking out to 730 yards and it was gong capable (18x16) and a hoot to shoot out there with the bdc, Might even get one myself pretty cool compact coyote gun if you ask me. That's saying a lot seeing as how I am a through and through bolt guy.... I have head the SL8 are even better though.
 
If your ACR is more accurate than your SL8 your SL8 was broken. SL8 is the choice for accuracy and precision when it comes to a semi .223.

To the OP, Tavors and XCRs are both great guns, the mini is tough and reliable but not the most accurate. Another option would be the SU16 (some people have good experiences, some people dont).
 
AlbertaGunslinger said:
If your ACR is more accurate than your SL8 your SL8 was broken. SL8 is the choice for accuracy and precision when it comes to a semi .223.
Click to expand...

It is what it is.
The sl8 was decently accurate. Before the acr, it was the most accurate nr 223 semi I have owned. I'd had ar's that would outshoot it handily, but nothing nr was quite with it.
I truly didn't expect the nr acr to best it.
Kind of makes sense in hindsight though, my acr does have a higher end barrel than the factory issue sl8.
Also the acr offers a better trigger due to the fact that it accepts any ar trigger. Currently have a geissele high speed national match in it. Sl8 trigger is terrible in comparison.
My acr as built is twice the price of an sl8, but for that you get a bit more accuracy, lighter weight, better controls, and much better ergonomics.
 
ntm said:
Ivi brass, hornady 75 grain bthp, vv n140 powder, Winchester primer.
In load testing with .2 grain jumps it went .8,.7,.67,.7,.8 moa in one spot. Five round groups. That's a very healthy accuracy node.
Heck, even fiocchi factory loaded 40 grain v-max is shooting right at 1 moa.

My sl8 was closer to 1.5 moa with most factory loads, and just barely sub moa with hand loads, although not consistently.
Click to expand...

Is your ACR a 7 or 8 twist? Profile?
I've tried Black Hills 75gr match and mine didn't like it much. I'll try some heavier handloads next, so far the heaviest I've loaded is 55gr looking for an economy FMJ load. I'll try some 60 and 68gr next (already loaded just need to get to the range to test them).
 
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I think the Mini 14 will be the last to bite the dust, 'cause the A-Team showed how harmless they were.
With all the thousands of rds. they put through them, many things were blowed up, but nobody was ever killed!
 
cr5 said:
Is your ACR a 7 or 8 twist? Profile?
I've tried Black Hills 75gr match and mine didn't like it much. I'll try some heavier handloads next, so far the heaviest I've loaded is 55gr looking for an economy FMJ load. I'll try some 60 and 68gr next (already loaded just need to get to the range to test them).
Click to expand...

Bartlien 1:8 twist, .750 from the gas block forward.
 
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