I Hate Making Decisions

Pigeonman

Pigeonman

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I hate making decisions. Especially when I have a self imposed budget to stay within and have centre fire tastes on a rimfire budget, so to speak. All I really want is a new range toy to punch paper with and just maybe use to play the occasional game of whack a gopher. My budget is $750 all in but I'd be happy to come in under budget and spend the surplus on ammo.

I'm thinking along the lines left hand bolt action in either .22 or .17 hmr. But haven't made up my mind on open sites or scoping. But I'm thinking I'd like to eventually play at seeing just how far out you can reach with a rimfire which would likely mean eventually scoping whatever I get.

A savage mk 2 gl would get me in way under budget even with decent optics, but man the CZ 452 lux and American models sure look like nice rifles...

As a side note what's the longest any of you have shot on a regular basis with open sites on a .22?

Help me spend my money wisely CGNers.
 
Shooting any rifle with iron sites takes practice and a consistent site picture. I use mostly scopes and have for many years but use my iron sited rimfires out to 100 yards when shooting them. By the way get the CZ, i have two of them and don't regret those purchases, actually i have a third it's an old Brno with a toasted barrel due to neglect.
 
I spent a lot of time on this same debate, and in the end, I ended up on the Savage side of the fence. Partly it was because I'm cheap, partly because I'm broke, and partly because the many, many reviews I read of the Savage convinced me it was the equal of almost any rimfire boltie out there.

The research that indicated the Savage was a good choice was ultimately confirmed. My MkII FV el-cheapo .22 ($189.95, brand new, including a cheap, mounted Bushnell 3-9X50 scope) was astoundingly accurate right out of the box, easily matching the best of the CZ's, for a fraction of the price. Since then, I've fitted it with a Boyd's Tacticool stock (when you could still import them), 4-14X50 AO scope, bipod, etc., all just for fun. None of those changed the accuracy any - it's still a tack driver (even in my uneducated hands, it consistently shoots sub-3/8" 10-shot groups at 50 yards - how much more does one need?), using bulk (i.e., cheap) Winchester ammo. Even with all the stuff I've added on, it's still cheaper than a basic CZ.

The CZ's, on the other hand, are truly beautiful rifles, with excellent fit & finish and high-quality wood, whereas the Savage rifles are plain & basic, for the most part. The CZ's have a strong cadre of proponents, and I suspect they are drawn, not in part, by the beauty of CZ's offerings. If cost had not been an object for me, I would have bought a CZ, for its appearance.

IMHO, accuracy & reliability between the two is a dead heat. It comes down to whether the much higher cost of the CZ is worth it for the much nicer-looking rifle, or is the plain appearance of the Savage not a deal-breaker - at a much lower cost.
 
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I liek the feel of the CZ rifle over the Savage. It feels like a high quality center fire rifle. The savage just felt cheap to me by comparison. but, to each his own. I have the 453 and the 455. really really like the 455, but love the 453. my butcher has a 452 win mag that he loaned me. Excelent rifle as well.
That being said, I have heard some good things about the norinco clones of the 452 as well, and they're 1/3 of the price. (bolt might need a bit of polishing, or the slide to bring it to the standard of the CZ, but I don't know) I don't own one, and have never tried one, so I have no firsthand knowledge. The JW25 also looks tempting to me as well.
 
amosfella said:
I liek the feel of the CZ rifle over the Savage. It feels like a high quality center fire rifle. The savage just felt cheap to me by comparison. but, to each his own.
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Same with me. Been selling my savages as fast as I can replace them. There is no comparison in the quality the cz feels like a real rifle whereas the savage feels somewhat toyish beside it. The savages I had I could never get the accuracy I was alway hearing about no matter what I tried. Not that same problem with the 2 cz I have.
You can pick up a 455 for $480 ish. Switch barrel capable, nice walnut. Imho that is cheap for what you are getting.
 
I handled a savage a few weeks ago and I agree it felt kind of toyish but I just figured that was a rimfire thing. My 10/22 has the same feel. Haven't got my hands on a CZ yet. I'm hoping to track one down next week when I head to the big city (Grande Prairie). They seem to be kinda scarce these days.
 
There are no "rights and wrongs" when it comes to Savage vs. CZ. CZs are better made, nicer-looking, accurate, etc. Savages tend to shoot very well, but my experience with them is more in 17 HMR and .22 WMR. Look at it this way~if CZs and Savages cost the same, Savage might not sell another gun. The difference is that dramatic. Money is, however, a fact of life and in my world...$100 one way or another can mean something happens or it doesn't. If you buy the Savage and shoot the heck out of it, you'll be happy. If you handle them both and then buy the Savage, you may feel some regret. Putting the rifle issue aside for a moment, make sure you get a decent scope. Savage's bolt throw (not as high as CZs) will allow for the use of a wider variety of scopes, probably the only way a Savage is "better" than a CZ. I'll wrap-up this rambling post by saying this~the difference between a nicely-stocked factory Savage an a CZ shouldn't be much more than about $150-$175. So, and argument could be made for going for the cheap plastic-stocked Savage, a nice scope, ring, spare mags, etc. Or, you could get a CZ and kill the lion's share of your budget on the rifle alone. A couple of years back, I'd have said get the Savage. Today, I'd say save a little longer so you can get a scope with your CZ.

Open sights~after almost 20 years of scope-use-only, I'm back to messing around with open sights a bit...and I need practice. Offhand shots~I can hit a clay pigeon @ 40 yards about 3/5 times. I realize this is the internet and I'm supposed to exaggerate accuracy claims :) but that's the truth. Off a rest, open sights, I can hit a clay pigeon @ 90 yards 4/5 times if I haven't had too much coffee.
 
For the bolt throw thing just grab a rail for the cz and use any rings you want. Put a d.i.p on my 452 with leupold prw rings. No issues with bolt clearance at all. there is around 1/4 inch or more room between the scope and the bolt handle.
 
Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten. This is something that you only need to buy once and should last you decades. Get the CZ. Shop around and you can probably even save some money buying a used one.

That being said, CZ rimfire rifles are not expensive when you compare them to an Anschuetz or Cooper, or even other rifles in their class (Browning T-Bolt, Ruger 77/22).
 
I shoot 50 yards with a 22 lr normally my Grandmother would do 400 she would be shooting at pest animals that I couldn't even see at that point and she would hit them with that round you have to drop the bullet on them by aiming really high and far to the left and let the bullet drop and drift onto the target sights at that distance made no difference as you didn't use them.
 
My savage 93r17 is minute of 12 gauge hull out to 200 yards in my incompetent hands, and I would absolutely buy its again given the choice. As an added bonus the the lefty bull barrel which I have is not a bad looking gun.
 
N1SH1E said:
My savage 93r17 is minute of 12 gauge hull out to 200 yards in my incompetent hands, and I would absolutely buy its again given the choice. As an added bonus the the lefty bull barrel which I have is not a bad looking gun.
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Not all that hard to do with a hmr though. Bullet drop is only 5 moa
 
Buy the CZ 453, you won't get much better in accurracy ,when spending a couple thousand you will do a little better. BUY the CZ I have 5 of the BRNO's 1 threw 5, wich are as accurate as my Winchester 52's and FRENCH and Swedish singleshot target rifles.
And hundred yards is about the limit of getting great goups, after that the wind and drop make small groups less likely!
cheers Dale Z!
 
I've shot my 10/22 out to about 350 yds with factory irons. We were walking the shots up the tire tracks on a hill to get a feel for holdover while trying to hit the end of a 12" log. We got a bunch of hits and hundreds of misses lol. For serious shooting I usually only take it out to 100 yds where I can ring a 6" gong with almost every shot and take out pop cans with similar success. All offhand for the 10/22, its not accurate enough to bother shooting it off a bench. That bores me to death with iron sights. For bolts I like the value that Savage brings to the table. You can pay a lot more but you'd be hard pressed to find something else that shoots much better. But as stated the other side to it is they are not pretty. They feel like a cheap toy even though they shoot really well. Never handled a CZ but the masses can't all be wrong. They're popular for a reason.
 
I have a CZ455 with iron sights, and a Savage TR-SR semi auto.

The CZ is a great shooter; the Savage hasn't let me down considering the cost.

Overall?:
The CZ with the Bushnell scope I put on my Savage would be the combination I'd recommend. You'll get quality, stay comfortably under the self imposed budget you have and come out happy.
Purchasing a Savage will be a great shooter too, but you'll lose some smoothness/mechanical performance in the trigger in exchange for the savings. I don't have any regrets with it, but do notice the smoother fluid difference between the two.

Either is recommendable!

I would gladly echo MH434's comments posted above. He's (or she) is accurate with his (or her) accounts.
 
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