I. Hollis and Sons SxS value?

B

BigWil

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My brother had a friend ask him to take his shotgun, as the friend's license lapsed. The friend has since decided that they are not going to renew their PAL. My brother likes the shotgun, and wants to know what it's worth, so he can buy it from his friend. Any old English shotgun experts here?

The gun is an I. Hollis and Sons 12 gauge SxS, with Damascus steel barrels. I'm not sure of it's history beyond that. If you have any questions, or require better pictures, let me know, and I will post them as soon as my brother takes the pictures.

Mods: if this fits better in the antique section, feel free to move it. I wasn't sure where it should go, as it doesn't fall under antique classification of firearms.













 
It dates between 1887 and 1904, probably closer to 1887. It is black powder only. The left barrel is marked 13 which means a .710 plug would fit down the bore but not a .729 (typical 12 gauge). Hard to give a value without knowing about the mechanical aspects of it. I would want bore measurements and barrel wall thickness measurements, especially being damascus barrels. Plus they are the lower grade damascus. How pitted are the insides of the bores? Is there any play in the action. This gun will have short chambers and cannot be used with modern pressure loads. Without knowing more, to me it's roughly a $400.00 to $500.00 gun. If the mechanics checked out value would increase a bit. If the barrels measured unsafe, then it's useless.The barrels need refinishing which is a $500.00 touch by themselves.
 
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I called my brother, and asked him for info on the bores and the action.

The person he is holding onto it for believes it is worth approx $14,000. I laughed.

I was also just informed that the previous owner engraved his SIN on the stock...People can be so foolish.
 
The SIN # on the stock just mixed any value as far as collectors go.

However for me, as one who reconditions and shoots vintage guns , the Hollis is one of those beauty's I love to find!
if the bores gauged out okay, to me it would be well worth $500 :>it is NOT however, and never was a $14,000 gun!!LOL
Cat
 
In your opening post you said your brother is interested in buying the shotgun from his friend. Supposing the friend had told him the price he wanted before you posted, surely your brother can't be serious about thinking of buying it. This gun is nowhere even remotely close to being worth $14,000.00. In top condition it's probably only around an $1800.00 gun (maybe) in this country . It is not a top of the line gun. Plus it needs work which would put it above what the gun is worth if the work was done. The guy must be smoking something. Let me know what it is, LOL. He obviously thinks that just because it's an old English double that it must be worth a fortune. Or he's looking online and comparing apples to oranges as far as condition and model. There is an old saying, "buy the gun, not the name".
Tell your brother to give him the gun back. If the guy doesn't want to renew his pal, then tell him to sell it for what it's worth in it's present condition and from what we know about. Rest assured I doubt the guy will pay someone to measure the bore and barrel wall thickness the length of the barrels.
 
My brother and his friend were talking...the friend guessed the value around $14,000, but said he could be off base on that (which he obviously is). My brother wants to get a better idea on the value, and is looking at using it as a wall hanger...he guessed the value around $200-$400.

The friend pretty much told my brother to do the research, and they could negotiate based on what the research said it was really worth.
 
As long as the friend realizes that he's way off base that's not so bad. If your brother wants it as a wall hanger that's fine. However, if the gun checks out safe there is no reason that the old girl couldn't see days afield with proper 2 1/2" low pressure loads. Be kind of ashamed to see it retired if there is still some life left in her!
 
I can buy relined and currently reproofed Rigby's and Greener's and Lang's for 5-10.000 right now, a carved up fairly plain Hollis with no verifiable inspection, isn't worth squat really.
 
If the guy who owns the gun thinks $14,000, then the OP's brother will be the one informing him of true value (less than $500 as is) and the owner will be annoyed at the messenger. The best thing the OP's brother could do is simply forward the owner a link to this thread so that we are the messengers, not him.

It is absolutely laughable to imagine $14,000. Cat is being generous but understandable given his enthusiasm for these types of shotguns. References to the Double Gun Forum are pointless and they won't be any additional help unless much better photos and much better description of mechanical condition are included. But that is also true here.

As Gunsaholic says, it all hangs on the barrels and even if all was PERFECT, it is still a $1500 to $2000 gun maximum. With the info posted so far i wouldn't pay a dime over $250 because without proper barrel measurements, it IS a wall hanger. It's a very small market and most in it are clearly a lot more knowledgeable than the owner of the gun.
 
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