I joined the Glock G20 (Gen4) Club!

FWIW Norma and Winchester silvertips were the most disappointing factory loads I have ever shot. The Norma barely breaks 1000 fps with a huge velocity spread and the silvertips were even worse. Out of 60 STs 5 were squibs as well. Stick to remington and federal.

Glock 20 gen 3

Winchester silvertips
1119/955/1105/1128/1142/1105= 1092fps average

Norma 200grn
1047/1036/965/1011/1022=1016fps average

I even used a 6" with the Norma to see if it would help and only gained about 75fps.
 
Petamocto said:
Can someone please explain what this guy means my "operator error"??? The guy loads up five rounds for a demo shoot, and has a stoppage (FFD to 55 seconds). WTF?


Why in the hell would someone intentionally upload a demo for a product that shows a stoppage, instead of filimng another take? More importantly, what caused that stoppage? This is potentially my life on the line here.

Most of the comments under that Youtube video ask the same thing. Explain this damn stoppage...
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Mine has done that. Slide locks open with 1 left in the mag. Not every time but its happened 3 or 4 times outta 200 rounds. Just thought it had something to do with the stupid 10 round mags. Wonder if this is just a 10mm problem.
 
My G20 is an early model. I'm not sure what generation. I get bulged brass with anything I shoot through the factory barrel. I bought a Redding Carbide G-Rx die set. You push the brass up a$$ end first through the die and it full length resizes it. That's the problem. No regular resizing die goes far enough down the case to get rid of the bulge. I'm only getting started with loads for it and haven't test fired them yet. I bought a whack of 10mm Starline brass as well as some 10mm Winchester brass. The other bonus with the after market barrels is that you can get longer barrels as well.

I really like my G20. I've never had any "stoppages" with 10mm or .40. The .40 brass sometimes gets thrown straight back at me instead of to the right but I suspect a different spring would help. I have a ton of .357 sig ammo and Starline brass. Time to order up the barrel for that. The flexibility is awesome.
 
B said:
FWIW Norma and Winchester silvertips were the most disappointing factory loads I have ever shot. The Norma barely breaks 1000 fps with a huge velocity spread and the silvertips were even worse. Out of 60 STs 5 were squibs as well. Stick to remington and federal.

Glock 20 gen 3

Winchester silvertips
1119/955/1105/1128/1142/1105= 1092fps average

Norma 200grn
1047/1036/965/1011/1022=1016fps average

I even used a 6" with the Norma to see if it would help and only gained about 75fps.
Click to expand...

Weird, I've shot over 1k rounds of factory Win Silvertips w/o any failures of any kind. Velocity out of a 5" barrel was less that the 1290fps advertised by the factory but still over 1200fps...

Never had the pleasure of shooting factory Norma ammo though.
 
Harry Callahan said:
Norma was the first ammo manuf. to bring the 10mm to life in 1983 (11 yrs after being developed out of a customized BHP by Whit Collins & Jeff Cooper in 1972 .40 G&A) with their two "famous" 180 JHP & 200gr FMJ super hot load. That was two years after the introduction of the D&D Bren Ten that the round finally came to reality, both D&D and Norma worked toghether to make it happen. The last lot of Norma ammo was manufactured somewhere in the late 90's

If any factory Norma 10mm ammo is left somewhere, it would be worth a lot. (I've seen a factory box of 50 rounds of Win. Black Talon 10mm sell for over $200 on gunbroker recently)!
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I have a few boxes left in the basement from around that time. Damn. Maybe I should sell them and buy another gun. - dan
 
thenewbieglockguy said:
How's the 10mm shape up to the .40? I have a .40 already and want to know is it worth it to get a 10mm?
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I haven't had it out to the range yet to test, but my friend just bought a Gen3 G22 from the same place, so I'll be able to side-by-side the two.

There are all sorts of reviews online from people who know much more than I do, though, and they generally state that The Gen4 G20 tames the 10mm better than anything else, including the hotter loads.
 
northnut said:
Mine has done that. Slide locks open with 1 left in the mag. Not every time but its happened 3 or 4 times outta 200 rounds. Just thought it had something to do with the stupid 10 round mags. Wonder if this is just a 10mm problem.
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I am going to lose my mind if that happens to me. The whole reason I chose Glock is because of their reputation for reliability no matter what.

Nothing can be totally perfect, but the first time I have a stoppage, the magazine is going to get a big X put on it. If I have another stoppage with that mag, it's going back and I'll demand a new one. If a different mag has a stoppage, the gun is going back and I'll demand a new one.

I'm not like this with anything else I have, but I buy other things for other reasons. I don't want to overstate this but I think it's fair to say that people buying into Glock have a social contract with the brand, and they are expecting close to perfect function regardless of ammo or conditions.

If that has happened to you 3+ times to you, I think you are fully justified in sending it back.
 
thenewbieglockguy said:
How's the 10mm shape up to the .40? I have a .40 already and want to know is it worth it to get a 10mm?
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As others have mentioned, most factory 10mm ammo is loaded to be pretty much the same as .40.
For example, this info is taken right off the boxes of some ammo. Unfortunately, I don't have exact apples to apples comparisons.

Federal American Eagle 10mm 180 grain muzzle velocity is 1030 FPS
Federal .40S&W 180 grain Hydra Shoks muzzle velocity is 1000 FPS

This is taken from the Federal Premium website:
Federal .10mm 180 grain Hydra Shoks muzzle velocity is 1030 FPS.

Federal does report some full 10mm loads. This is also taken right from the Federal Premium website:

"The new Vital-Shok™ Trophy Bonded 10mm Auto is a full-power load that takes complete advantage of the caliber's true capability. While most 10mm loads are watered down to produce ballistics similar to those of the 40 S&W, this cartridge offers the muscle needed for both big game hunting and personal protection. Its new Trophy Bonded Jacketed Soft Point bullet design makes the load even more effective. Based on the proven Trophy Bonded® Bear Claw® rifle bullet, its heavy jacket features a formed inner profile that preprograms and controls expansion to ensure deep penetration.
Features & Benefits
•Full-power 10mm Auto load provides superior downrange energy
•1275 fps muzzle velocity
•Trophy Bonded JSP bullet provides consistent expansion and deep penetration
•Nickel-plated case for easy extraction"

There is reloading data out there that will give you even more info.
I have some Hornady Custom load 180 grain XTP rounds that report a muzzle velocity of about 1180 FPS. That's still 100 FPS shy of those Vital Shok rounds mentioned above.

The G20 has a larger than normal grip to accomodate the extra 1/8 inch of length of the 10mm case. I like the grip but some folks find it a bit ugly and large.
I'm not sure what the grips are like on a G20 gen 4 though. I'm keen to try it if I see one around.
 
I am happy that you have brought this under-loading to my attention.

I will definitely pay closer attention when buying ammo to make sure I am not buying the 1000fps garbage.
 
Petamocto said:
Can someone please explain what this guy means my "operator error"??? The guy loads up five rounds for a demo shoot, and has a stoppage (FFD to 55 seconds). WTF?


Why in the hell would someone intentionally upload a demo for a product that shows a stoppage, instead of filimng another take? More importantly, what caused that stoppage? This is potentially my life on the line here.

Most of the comments under that Youtube video ask the same thing. Explain this damn stoppage...
Click to expand...


I don't buy it either. I've heard people excuse failures like this by referring to "limp wristing" the gun. I'm not sure.
I agree with you about the failures. I had similar problems with another gun. After isolating the crappy magazines, I took them back and they were replaced.
For folks that will likely never have to depend on the gun for a life and death situation there is still the other competitions like IDPA or IPSC where it's going to cost you points.
A G20 magazine is upwards of $40.00. I expect them to work. So far, they have for me.
 
This pistol locked open on the slide release, it itsnt rocket science to put 2 and 2 together to conclude when the man firing the pistol admitted to operator error that it was in fact operator error, poor grip position that allowed his finger to ride the release with upward pressure allowing it to catch.
 
Petamocto said:
I am happy that you have brought this under-loading to my attention.

I will definitely pay closer attention when buying ammo to make sure I am not buying the 1000fps garbage.
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This is why everyone has mentioned you need to reload for the 10mm. I have never heard of any full house 10mm ammo being sold in Canada. Actually thats not true, I once discovered some fancy hollow points, iirc $63 for 20 cartridges.

FYI, to add to another post noting some factory load velocities, in my lap are 2 boxes, one .40s&w 180gr fmj American eagle, the other 10mm 180gr fmj American eagle. Both state 1030fps. One box was $23, the other $46. Funny hey. Guess which is which, and it's anyone's guess why. Lol.
 
Harry Callahan said:
Weird, I've shot over 1k rounds of factory Win Silvertips w/o any failures of any kind. Velocity out of a 5" barrel was less that the 1290fps advertised by the factory but still over 1200fps...

Never had the pleasure of shooting factory Norma ammo though.
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I'll chalk up my experience with the winchester ammo to a bad batch. The ST is still an obsolete JHP though. The Norma ammo was a real disappointment. I had a full box and a half. I used the half box for testing and found the numbers to be less than impressive. I push a 200grn JHP to a consistent 1175ish FPS out of the same gun without exceeding published maximums.
 
This pistol locked open on the slide release, it itsnt rocket science to put 2 and 2 together to conclude when the man firing the pistol admitted to operator error that it was in fact operator error, poor grip position that allowed his finger to ride the release with upward pressure allowing it to catch.
Click to expand...
Naw, I dunno if that's it. Thought it might be op error, corrected, and it still happened. Thinking it might be the weird semi stagger of the 10 round mags and the fact that they're new. Can't say that with even the slightest amount of certainty though. That's why I'm wondering if this is just a G20 problem. The last Glock I bought was a 17 over 20 years ago when you could still run 17 and 19 round mags. Then you had to put a stick inside them so they wouldn't load more than 10 but they still staggered properly. Never once had this problem with that set up.
 
The slide release/lock gets lifted into position by the magazine follower. It can not catch te slide unless the operator inadvertantly lifts it or the magazine is empty, allowing the follower to come high enough to contact the arm. It simply can't happen any other way. Not a defective mag or anything except a broken spring on the slide release/hold open lever but that would be quite obvious, that spring is shared throughout the entire glock lineup and is not known to be a failure.
 
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