I Just Annealed Brass For The First Time And Need To Know...

Redhouse

Redhouse

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Do I now have to full size resize it or can I just continue along as I have been, neck sizing only?

I plan to trim after sizing, tis time.

Background: .223 Win brass, fired 4-5 times, no external problem signs, good primer pockets. In a dimly lit room, I butane-torched the necks only until cherry red all round and tipped them over into water. Recleaned the brass, cleaned and reamed the primer pockets, ran a brush in/out of the necks a couple times. Ready for sizing.

Thanks (yet again) in advance for sharing your knowledge.

*edit* I also chambered a few after annealing, they're fine for the rifle as is. My guess is neck sizing will be fine, but am looking for reasons why it may not be.
 
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Continue as you have been. Annealing only softens the brass. After the process I clean then run it thru the sizer and voila... good for another 3-5 firings (depending on brass and firearm used)
 
Redhouse said:
In a dimly lit room, I butane-torched the necks only until cherry red all round and tipped them over into water.
Click to expand...

I would consider full-length resizing them. You badly overheated the brass by heating it until it glowed, so it is now VERY soft. A full length resize will help restore some of the strength of the case.

If it was me, and I was able to get out to range several times in the near future, I would probably run a small test. Load ten neck sized and ten full-length resized, and see if it made a difference in the life or performance of the brass.
 
For the most part I don't bother annealing. Neck sizing with a collet sizer is usually good for ten to fifteen loads (or more), at which point I don't mind getting new brass. By that many loads, I've probably lost most of the brass anyway.

I reserve annealing for my 378, and other >$3 per case cartridges
 
I used to anneal some lots of brass that I felt were good quality and consistent, but I found that I had much better things to do with my time than anneal brass, so now I will use it till signs start to appear and then turf it in favor of a new lot. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Redhouse,
There are some very good articles on brass annealing on 6BR.com
Heating to cherry is too hot.
Visit 6BR and type in search for annealing.
Some swear by it and others don't bother.I believe that in some brass and demand for neck tension consistency,it will help.
Depends how much you "work" the necks each reloading.
 
For what it is worth, when I was a teenager who had not yet obtained a metallurgy degree, I did anneal some brass in the way you describe. It reloaded just fine, and I never noticed the difference for the kind of shooting I did.
 
prosper said:
For the most part I don't bother annealing. Neck sizing with a collet sizer is usually good for ten to fifteen loads (or more), at which point I don't mind getting new brass. By that many loads, I've probably lost most of the brass anyway.

I reserve annealing for my 378, and other >$3 per case cartridges
Click to expand...

Great advice, worth repeating.
 
Redhouse said:
Yup, I overcooked em for sure. No problem, into the trash they go.
Click to expand...

Redhouse do not do that, instead run them through your necking die half a dozen times then load and shoot them...they will harden up.
The next time you anneal hold the case half-way up the body with your thumb and forefinger and turn at a steady rate (two to three turns either way is generally correct), when the heat is sufficient you WILL drop the case (into a bucket of water), your fingers also act as a heat sink so that minimum heat will bleed into the base of the case, no man on earth will hold the case too long using this method of holding the case...no one sane that is.
DO NOT use an oxy set, DO use a Primus or similar with a medium tip, also you will find it very helpful to do the work in the dusk so that you can see what is going on with the brass.
As an aside I run three hundred Lapua brass for each of my work rifles and I anneal each time I purchase another one thousand projectiles, this seems to work well for me.
Regards, J Stuart.
 
Redhouse said:
Yup, I overcooked em for sure. No problem, into the trash they go.
Click to expand...

If you don't feel comfortable about them, I would do that.

I used to try to stretch brass life, not anymore. Brass is much cheaper than a new rifle. Even the slightest doubt, they get tossed.

A few years ago I was loading for my BDL in 6mm Rem. As soon as I noticed neck cracks I would toss them, until I read about annealing in a leading reloading manual. So I decided to try that, and save the rest of the lot which hadn't cracked. Followed directions to a "t", heating the necks until cherry red, then tipping them over in the pan of water. Then resized, trimmed to length as usual. Well, I think the necks were way too soft, or weakened in some manner.

BECAUSE

At the range, with a moderate load, we had a disaster. When I finally got the stars out of my head, and the blood specks wiped off my face, and managed to get things apart again, in pieces, the entire neck was missing from the case, and the rifle was ruined. Thank god for the strong 700 action, she sure got a test that day. Crap even hit my chrony, which was 10' from the muzzel, and about 5" below the line of fire. It was obvious that the bullet must have pulled the neck from the case and they travelled down the bore together, creating some "interesting" pressures.......if I wasn't wearing glasses I may have had to learn Braille........

BRASS IS CHEAP
 
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I neck size all brass except for semi-auto. I full length resize every four neck sizing. I measure the case length and trim the cases if necessary

Every second full legth resize I anneal the cases. The cycle goes on.

Some cases have gone 18 times and I finally decide to throw them away as there is no point for taking risk.

There are many articles on the internet for annealing. Read and try them out.
 
"...until cherry red all round..." Too hot. It only needs to be heated(the necks and the shoulders. Not just the necks) until you see the brass change colour. However, the brass isn't destroyed. I'd just resize the necks and forget about it.
You should trim them before you anneal. You'll have to chamfer the inside and deburr the outside after trimming anyway. It's not the end of the world though.
 
J Stuart said:
Redhouse do not do that, instead run them through your necking die half a dozen times then load and shoot them...they will harden up.
The next time you anneal hold the case half-way up the body with your thumb and forefinger and turn at a steady rate (two to three turns either way is generally correct), when the heat is sufficient you WILL drop the case (into a bucket of water), your fingers also act as a heat sink so that minimum heat will bleed into the base of the case, no man on earth will hold the case too long using this method of holding the case...no one sane that is.
DO NOT use an oxy set, DO use a Primus or similar with a medium tip, also you will find it very helpful to do the work in the dusk so that you can see what is going on with the brass.
As an aside I run three hundred Lapua brass for each of my work rifles and I anneal each time I purchase another one thousand projectiles, this seems to work well for me.
Regards, J Stuart.
Click to expand...

I do almost the same thing, except I don't quench them, but let them cool on a soft cloth.
Cat
 
CyaN1de said:
The heat anneals the brass, the quenching is only to stop the heat from softening the head of the case.
Click to expand...
exactly. I don't let the brass get hot enough to let the heat transfer to the case head, however.
I think most people get the brass too hot, then when they quench the brass in water they actually reharden it.
if the brass is not that hot, dunking it in the water won't change the annealing but will cool it faster.

Cat
 
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Savagefan you don't have to dunk the brass in water to anneal it it gets soft from the uniform heating. Dunking them in water just cools them to be handled and makes it so you have to wait for them to dry out to do the next step.
Working brass makes it hard.
Ken.
 
I only wish that the knowledge and advice available currently, largely due to the internet and informative forums and discussions such as this thread, was as readily accessible when I was in my earlier years of reloading. It certainly can speed up the learning process, as well as making it much cheaper and enjoyable for some. Hopefully discussions such as this can save others some grief. A bomb in your hands is not funny, believe me.:(

If I ever muster the courage to anneal cases again, it will certainly involve a different process than before. CyanN1de, thanks for the link.


The “cherry red” concept is described in detail in a leading, and what I consider to be one of the most informative, reloading manuals. To quote:

“The only special equipment required for this job is a concentrated heat source, such as a propane torch, and a metal dish or pan. Fill the pan to half the case length with water and stand a series of cases on their heads in the pan of water.

Individually, heat the neck of each case. When the neck reaches a cherry red color quickly tip the case over into the water. The water serves as a quenching medium and leaves the neck and shoulder quite soft. It also protects the head of the case, keeping it cool so that it may retain its hardness.”

Maybe improper annealing had nothing to do with weakening my 6mm brass neck. Quite possibly, maybe even likely, there was some other cause. But the failure did happen after this process. I’m still kicking myself for trying to save small change and destroying one of my favourite rifles in the process……..

Have fun, and safe reloading!:)
 
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