I need a favor
- Thread starter jacky
- Start date
I am just a little curious? What is there about the grey wads that you can not make work? They are my favorite.
Have not done a crono, but according to an old IMR data book it should be around 1250 fps. Low pressure! Light on shoulder! and it does grind clay out to mid handicap distance. This grey wad seems to also work well with 1 oz loads.
I have tried the 7/8 oz with 18.5 grains and it break targets well, but is not as pleasant to shoot.
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Well to start I don't have a 7/8 charge bar so I am trying to load 1oz using the grey wad, 16-17 grains Promo and a chedditt primer ( MEC 9000 hydraulic). The problem is the crimp I can't get a flat nice crimp. The crimp I get is either a high rounded shape or it does not close in the middle. I have tried new AA hulls, older grey AA hulls and older AA reds, none of which seem to work. I am always loosing shot out that dam hole.
I have even went back to loading 1 oz Federal wads and hulls. Never had a problem with those.
A guy at my club is going to try some and if he can get them to work they are his. Way too much piss-assing around with these things and 1oz loads.
I have even went back to loading 1 oz Federal wads and hulls. Never had a problem with those.
A guy at my club is going to try some and if he can get them to work they are his. Way too much piss-assing around with these things and 1oz loads.
Jacky...haven't tried to squeeze that combo,, but,,after shooting 7/8 oz loads I would buy the bar needed to make em work. Not only will you save 12.5% shot cost but you will be amazed how they destroy targets. Awesome on first shot in doubles, and not enough recoil to hinder getting onto second target. The 7/8 oz load is the only reason I still reload.
Wad pressure eh ??? hmmmm maybe I will try it.
Same thing for me. Don't see it as a handicap . My wife has done her first ever 25 straight (skeet) with these 7/8 loads.
It goes in line with the British light loads theories. They're still selling 2"1/2 shells for that reason.
Another thing : depending on how much you shoot, you can save a 25 lbs bag of lead shot pretty quick. It will pay for the bar.
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I never really paid much attention to what the Britich use. After experiencing the efficiency of the 7/8, I wonder what the rest of the world uses to score those frail clays? In any event 1 1/8 seems a bit much for the American version of trap and skeet. I must have been really barbaric in the past. When I started shooting again I dug out a flat of AAs 1 1/4 oz (ouch!!) that I kept for turkey shoots. This fall I will give my 7/8 oz reloads a try. The worst that will
happen is I might pay for the winners turkey
I never really paid much attention to what the Britich use. After experiencing the efficiency of the 7/8, I wonder what the rest of the world uses to score those frail clays? In any event 1 1/8 seems a bit much for the American version of trap and skeet. I must have been really barbaric in the past. When I started shooting again I dug out a flat of AAs 1 1/4 oz (ouch!!) that I kept for turkey shoots. This fall I will give my 7/8 oz reloads a try. The worst that will
happen is I might pay for the winners turkey
7/8 oz is a standard 20ga payload. I find 20ga to be nearly as effective as 12ga in American Skeet. The payoff is the reduction in recoil vs the reduction in payload.
For me, the reduction in recoil is worth shooting 20ga in 12ga events. However, that extra 1/4oz of lead is always in the back of my mind when I miss. The more lead you put down range, the better your chances of breaking the bird.
For me, the reduction in recoil is worth shooting 20ga in 12ga events. However, that extra 1/4oz of lead is always in the back of my mind when I miss. The more lead you put down range, the better your chances of breaking the bird.
beretta boy
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Jacky
I'm sure you're well aware that 24 grams ( just shy of 7/8 oz.) is the maximum
charge mandated for 12 gauge Trap & Skeet as shot at the International
(World Cup/Olympic) level, but these typically are at a muzzle velocity advertised as being around 1325 fps+.
These loads work great at ATA Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays & 5-Stand, and I have used a pant-load of them shooting both white-winged & mourning doves.
Suggest you get the right bar ( not a major expenditure and easy to change ) and do your best to work up a load at around the 1250 fps level.
Although Winchester wads (and Claybuster substitutes) supposedly don't require any wad pressure (only that they be seated firmly on the powder) I have always found that 40 - 60 pounds pressure gives the best and most consistent crimps, whether it be with MEC or P-W presses. (I routinely use
80 pounds pressure on my favourite AA20 ga. skeet/upland loads with WWSF powder)
Once set-up properly, you can get excellent well-formed and nicely tapered crimps with the AA silver wads or the CB0178-12 silver or CB4100-12B white wads for 7/8 oz. loads . It does take a little "fiddling" with wad pressure and final crimp depth (and jockeying the crimp cam back or forth on the MEC) but the results are well worth it.
Stick with it !!! and oh yeah, about 442 loads out of an 11kg. bag of shot. Almost 2 boxes more per bag than with 1 oz. loads. To keep costs down, you might also want to switch to something like Alliant's "Promo" powder. It's very much like Red Dot in terms of it's performance, and I've had no problems with it ( now some 100 lbs of it later ! ) either summer or winter.
For the price of it, I don't mind a little extra cleaning. After 2500 rounds of these reloads through a new 391 Parallel Target with no cleaning (and no feeding/ejection malfunctions) whatsoever, the amount of cleaning then required ... was no greater than with any other standard powder and/or many premium factory loads.
I'm sure you're well aware that 24 grams ( just shy of 7/8 oz.) is the maximum
charge mandated for 12 gauge Trap & Skeet as shot at the International
(World Cup/Olympic) level, but these typically are at a muzzle velocity advertised as being around 1325 fps+.
These loads work great at ATA Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays & 5-Stand, and I have used a pant-load of them shooting both white-winged & mourning doves.
Suggest you get the right bar ( not a major expenditure and easy to change ) and do your best to work up a load at around the 1250 fps level.
Although Winchester wads (and Claybuster substitutes) supposedly don't require any wad pressure (only that they be seated firmly on the powder) I have always found that 40 - 60 pounds pressure gives the best and most consistent crimps, whether it be with MEC or P-W presses. (I routinely use
80 pounds pressure on my favourite AA20 ga. skeet/upland loads with WWSF powder)
Once set-up properly, you can get excellent well-formed and nicely tapered crimps with the AA silver wads or the CB0178-12 silver or CB4100-12B white wads for 7/8 oz. loads . It does take a little "fiddling" with wad pressure and final crimp depth (and jockeying the crimp cam back or forth on the MEC) but the results are well worth it.
Stick with it !!!
and oh yeah, about 442 loads out of an 11kg. bag of shot. Almost 2 boxes more per bag than with 1 oz. loads. To keep costs down, you might also want to switch to something like Alliant's "Promo" powder. It's very much like Red Dot in terms of it's performance, and I've had no problems with it ( now some 100 lbs of it later ! ) either summer or winter. For the price of it, I don't mind a little extra cleaning. After 2500 rounds of these reloads through a new 391 Parallel Target with no cleaning (and no feeding/ejection malfunctions) whatsoever, the amount of cleaning then required ... was no greater than with any other standard powder and/or many premium factory loads.
It is interesting that most people say to use a 7/8oz load for american style trap. Now I do not know of anyone who uses a 7/8oz load for singles or other. 1oz yes however most still use 11/8 oz. Reason why...
Many shooters (with a ton more experience than myself) will tell you that going from 11/8oz loads to 1oz loads will cost you a target and that a 7/8oz load will cost you another target ??? True or not ??
Furthermore one or even two targets can easily make or break whether you win or loose in a PITA or ATA event.
For myself....well I use 1oz loads for singles because of the lower recoil but going to a 7/8oz load......regardless of who is correct here the mental part of shooting less shot and a lighter load, that no other opponent is using, is not something I want. I still think I will get rid of the wads and get some 1oz.
Many shooters (with a ton more experience than myself) will tell you that going from 11/8oz loads to 1oz loads will cost you a target and that a 7/8oz load will cost you another target ??? True or not ??
Furthermore one or even two targets can easily make or break whether you win or loose in a PITA or ATA event.
For myself....well I use 1oz loads for singles because of the lower recoil but going to a 7/8oz load......regardless of who is correct here the mental part of shooting less shot and a lighter load, that no other opponent is using, is not something I want. I still think I will get rid of the wads and get some 1oz.
I understand you not wanting to give up even a single target
Who would?I still would use the light 7/8 for most of my practice and probably the first shot in doubles. You would save more than enough to buy premium target loads with a heavier pay load. With your logic, imagine the edge you would have? If you can score em with 7/8 it will be a slam dunk to X em with 1 oz or 1 1/8
Just load those puffers to roughly match the speed of your premium that you expect to use.I buy my greys well below retail cost, or otherwise I wouldtake them off you hands.
Good Luck!
It is true if you believe it to be true. If shooting 1 ounce will make you more confident then do it. Nothing else matters if you THINK you missed a target that you would have hit with a heavier load.
But if the pattern of a 7/8s ounce load is right at the distance you will be breaking targets why put up more lead than you need to?
Also, why do we miss? If I do miss a couple of targets with my 7/8s ounce load does that make up for the couple I might have missed due to a fatigue error or flinch caused by being pounded by heavier loads through a 300 target day?
I don't know the answers to any of these questions. I do know I'm shooting more 7/8 loads on targets 40 yards and under and reach for the 1 ounce for anything longer. My loads are generally faster however and I accept the trade off between pellet count and velocity. I haven't noticed a drop in my scores. Maybe I should go back to shooting 1 ounce for a few months to see if it makes a difference.
CB, I am not sure if you're being, mystical, metaphysical, zen or just plain practical? .......but causing one to ponder a question without claiming to know the answer?.......you must be really old? or wise beyond your years?
Old and not that wise.CB, I am not sure if you're being, mystical, metaphysical, zen or just plain practical? .......but causing one to ponder a question without claiming to know the answer?.......you must be really old? or wise beyond your years?
The question that can't be definitely answered is whether a target missed with a lighter load might have been hit with one that was heavier all else being equal.
What I do know at least is the cumulative effect of recoil. Each year I attend a 600 target fun shoot with a group of friends where ammunition is provided. What I learned this year was after switching to mostly 7/8s ounce loads, going back to the 3 dram 1-1/8 ounce loads provided at this shoot took a physical toll particularly towards the end of the day. Would I have scored better with my 7/8 ounce loads? I don't know the definitive answer to that question either although I believe that would be the case. Next year either I'm bringing my own ammo or shooting my autoloader.
No Zen. Just some questions that interest me.
Since it is a fun event, I hope you just change the ammo and report back the results
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