I need a favor

I have shot the best score of my life in trap and skeet with light loads, and continue to .

It's all in the mind as far as being able to hit better with a light load compared to a 1/1/8 load, until you get to the recoil factor sets in , then flinching is more pronounced.
Cat
 
Claybuster said:
Old and not that wise. :)

The question that can't be definitely answered is whether a target missed with a lighter load might have been hit with one that was heavier all else being equal.

What I do know at least is the cumulative effect of recoil. Each year I attend a 600 target fun shoot with a group of friends where ammunition is provided. What I learned this year was after switching to mostly 7/8s ounce loads, going back to the 3 dram 1-1/8 ounce loads provided at this shoot took a physical toll particularly towards the end of the day. Would I have scored better with my 7/8 ounce loads? I don't know the definitive answer to that question either although I believe that would be the case. Next year either I'm bringing my own ammo or shooting my autoloader.

No Zen. Just some questions that interest me. :)
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CB your post made me laugh...especially when you stated you do not know the answer:D You are correct about the recoil though. I think that I am pretty recoil sensitive which was the primary reason I switched to 1 oz loads.
However this thread has become ( without my intending it to be) one of the best we have had in the form for a while. It does bring out many questions that are probably specific to every shooter. I shoot with guys who shoot a 700 target event with 11/8oz 3 dram loads and WIN. Myself, well the recoil would kill me and my scores. But the whole thing has me thinking. I recently switched to a full choke for both singles and handicap. Although the pattern is tighter I have been shooting better. It is a mental thing. I know, with the full choke, that I have to be precise and on the target because of the full choke so I am shooting with more concentration and hence better scores....still all mental. Now this question has crossed my mind.

Since I am using a full choke anyway, the number of pellets from the 16 yd line within my pattern would or would not be just as effective using 7/8 or 1oz loads. The pattern might not be a dense but I would think that there are still enough pellets to break any clay within the tighter pattern that the full choke has. Right ???
 
I have been shooting 7/8 oz. loads for Trap, Skeet and Sporting for many years now. While I'm not a competition shooter I do want to hit as many targets as possible. I find these light loads a pleasure to shoot and they will crush clays out to 40yds. or so if you do your part. The odd time or two when I shoot 1 1/8 oz. I don't score any better, in fact the hits don't appear to be as hard. The recoil in my Beretta 686 is substantial and soon leads to a flinch and a lost target. I think those International shooters may be on to something. Not only does a lighter payload pose more of a challenge but putting less lead out there is helpful for the environment. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest it may be time for us North American clay target shooters to phase out the 1 1/8 oz. in favor of the 7/8oz. Imagine the PR we could get if we did this as conservation measure. Food for thought.:)
 
bat said:
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest it may be time for us North American clay target shooters to phase out the 1 1/8 oz. in favor of the 7/8oz. Imagine the PR we could get if we did this as conservation measure. Food for thought
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.:)
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I think that this is a great idea! ,,,,,,but,,,,,, I can just hear all of those old A.T.A. guys who keep track of their lifetime averages to the decimal point,,,,worrying about their averages going down and comparing records etc. I think that their might not be as much opposition from the skeet crew, because many of them now opt for a smaller payload in the 12 gauge events, and many shoot a 20 in the open event. Anyways...how many hundred straights do we need in doubles and from the 27 yard line? If the 24 grain load is not up to snuff with 1 1/8 at least it will separate the men from the boys and not require as many shoot offs.

Conservation? It would be great for PR and might slow down the talk of going non lead for target shooting.

If it ever did happen, the old school might learn what the international guys allready know. Payload does not matter as much as they thought it would and shooting ability is still important,,,,,,and after years of shooting you might not be as F

l In....ch
ie:D
 
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bat said:
I have been shooting 7/8 oz. loads for Trap, Skeet and Sporting for many years now. While I'm not a competition shooter I do want to hit as many targets as possible. I find these light loads a pleasure to shoot and they will crush clays out to 40yds. or so if you do your part. The odd time or two when I shoot 1 1/8 oz. I don't score any better, in fact the hits don't appear to be as hard. The recoil in my Beretta 686 is substantial and soon leads to a flinch and a lost target. I think those International shooters may be on to something. Not only does a lighter payload pose more of a challenge but putting less lead out there is helpful for the environment. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest it may be time for us North American clay target shooters to phase out the 1 1/8 oz. in favor of the 7/8oz. Imagine the PR we could get if we did this as conservation measure. Food for thought.:)
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Yes it is a good idea. Especially for a young (relatively ) new shooter. It would help the sport however it is true that the old PITA guys would flip ( which is most of my club) , but I still think it would be a good idea.
 
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Ok so I have some 700X I want to use up. Anyone load 7/8 oz using a grey wad and winchester AA hull, cheddite primer. The closest load I can find is using 18.5 grains 700X and a 24gram load for 1325psi and 9100psi pressure, which is getting up there ?? Sound good ??
 
Covey Ridge said:
Since it is a fun event, I hope you just change the ammo and report back the results:)
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It's fun but still pretty competitive among a few of us harder core shooters. There is no doubt in my mind that I could shoot 80 per cent of that match with 7/8s and not give up a thing. For the second shot on wobble, trap doubles and part of the sporting course I would want something heavier. Maybe I'll take my ammo AND my semi-auto. That's a combination that is as soft shooting as it gets.

Jacky, your recipe with 700x sounds pretty good. I load around 1,300 fps with American Select and like the patterns I'm getting.
 
jacky:
bat's post #3 on this thread is a pretty good load. Try it and I think you will be surprised! When you approach the 1300+ international type loads, they are not as pleasant to shoot. Keeping to low to mid 1200s seems to break targets well and is close enough to factory velocity trap loads if you wish to buy premium 1 oz for really competative events.
 
bat said:
16.8 grains of 700-X, 7/8 oz. #8 shot, Win. Grey wad, AA hull, Win. 209 primer. Very soft shooting and slams those clays nicely out to 35 yds. or so.:)
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16.8 grains seems low from what I have been reading, maybe 1150fsp ??? but I will give it a shot.

My recipe above may be a bit hot but somewhere in between should be good.
 
jacky:
I just checked my notes. Last couple batches were 16.4 gr. 700X and I have used both win 209 and Fed 209A primers. I have no experience with cheddite primers?
 
Jacky:

With the components you have, 17.0 gr. of 700X should give you
something like 1250 fps.

It will be comfortable & economical to shoot and it will break targets,
consistantly, a lot further out than you think it might !
 
Buy a 7/8 oz shot bar ! If ya miss it with 7/8 oz you would have missed it 1 oz. Would that not solve the loading problem with regards to the crimp ?
 
Ok Ok so I tried my first 7/8 oz loads today at practice. I used my full choke and they broke targets just fine. There was a bigger difference in recoil than I thought whne compared to my 1oz loads; although we are talking managable recoil because both 1oz and 7/8oz are nothing. I will use this load to practice but not in competition. I will still use 1oz for singles and 11/8 oz for handicap.

An interesting comparison from the IMR web site. Using #8 shot.

7/8 oz gives 358 pellets
1oz gives 409 pellets
11/8 oz gives 460 pellets

In a competition those extra pellets may, and I repeat may make the difference between winning and losing.

Jacky
 
So, does that mean you don't want to give away those grey wads?

It's been a while! Thanks for getting back to us:)
 
jacky said:
In a competition those extra pellets may, and I repeat may make the difference between winning and losing.
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And without trying to get too much into your head the increased recoil of a 1-1/8 ounce shell over a 300 round event might do that too.

I had the same questions of confidence about the 28 gauge a couple of years ago. I decided to put my other guns away and shoot nothing but 28 for a few months. After I ran a couple of rounds straight on trap and hit some very long crossers with my subgauge I stopped having that nagging thought that I didn't have enough gun.

Shoot your 7/8s ounce loads for a few months. Find out for yourself if the trade off between pellets and recoil is worth it. Pattern your gun to find the right choke combination and the distance at which holes open up in your pattern to let a target through and whether you are getting good pellet distribution from your load. You may be pleasantly surprised.

One of the fun parts of shotgunning is finding this stuff out for yourself.
 
Claybuster said:
And without trying to get too much into your head the increased recoil of a 1-1/8 ounce shell over a 300 round event might do that too.
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If recoil is any sort of an issue, reducing payload can be a positive payoff. It is something you'd have to analyze over time.

I find that if I shoot 12ga loads in the 12ga events, that I will lift my head off the stock more often, and flinch due to the increased recoil. These bad habbits would become more apparent in the smaller gauge events (28ga and .410)

I decided to shoot 20ga (7/8oz loads) in the 12ga events.

I don't have any real time data for full 12ga loads vs 20ga loads, but I do have data for 20ga loads (7/8oz) vs 28ga loads (3/4oz) from this passed (I won't bring the .410 into this discussion).

12ga event (shooting 7/8oz 20ga ammo) 1183/1200 0.9858
20ga event (shooting 7/8oz 20ga ammo) 982/1000 0.9820
28ga event (shooting 3/4oz 28ga ammo) 984/1000 0.9840


If you add the numbers together for the 12 and 20 ga events it rounds to 0.9841 or essentially the same as my 28ga average.

I figure that you are either on the bird or you are not (within reason).

Now, it only follows that if I was putting more lead downrange, without an increase in recoil, that the averages would be higher (you'd chip some of the close misses). If I could find an acceptable way to accomplish this I would.

In the meantime, I'll take the recoil reduction.

YMMV.

Brad.
 
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