I need AR purchase help

Frankly, I'd go either one way, or the other - either a KAC, because they are amazing rifles and have fully supported service from a stand up company, or a fairly ordinary Stag from AE, because they're a solid quality gun (not as amazing as the KAC stuff) that comes from a stand up company, with full service and lifetime warranty service in Canada. Most Colt stuff I've seen for sale has been grey market, if you expect support, do not ever buy grey market firearms. The money you save is directly related to the service you aren't paying for. Who is Colt's Canadian distributor?

PS - if you go for a Stag, you could probably stretch out for an Elcan Specter lovely sight, and instant 1-4x switch without breaking cheek weld.
 
KAC..Colt;... all are damn fine rifles...my pick would go to the DD Mk 12...If you can..track down a few and spend some time playing with 'em....and get what you like or suits you the best..
 
My Stag Model 2 has run flawless for 3K rounds. I've modded it for 3 gun, it's very similar to their 3G Model. I would recommend it to anyone who wants an affordable competition rifle.

My 7.5" Noveske build has been a little more finicky, and their product is hard to get in Canada. The barrels can't be beat though.

KAC has an awesome reputation, I just don't like a quad rail for competition.
 
I suggest you build your own. It really easy and there is so much info online.

I learnt to build my own and I have a hospital tags to prove it. I spent 5 hours in emergency from when I tried to remove a barrel nut lol. Nice cut on my finger from trying to drive out a taper pin from a gas block.

Every build you do, you learn more and you can make a custom gun for about 1/3 price of a factory built one.

Its just like computers. I don't know much about them, but my buddy can make a awesome computer for the price of a regular factory computer.
 
glover said:
My Stag Model 2 has run flawless for 3K rounds. I've modded it for 3 gun, it's very similar to their 3G Model. I would recommend it to anyone who wants an affordable competition rifle.

My 7.5" Noveske build has been a little more finicky, and their product is hard to get in Canada. The barrels can't be beat though.

KAC has an awesome reputation, I just don't like a quad rail for competition.
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I agree with the quad rail comment, I just can't stand them in competitions.
 
Lots of good sugestions do far.

You're looking for a specialized AR. What you would want for three gun might not be what police/LE would chose based on what their needs are. Quad rails etc are a good example. I'd check out what the top people are using in the sport. That way you simply work on the sport and don't have to worry about the gear.

KAC is very nice but expensive. LMT also very nice but prices have gone up. The LMT doesn't offer ambi lowers although you can change you're barrel in under 2 minutes. I have a SS 1:8 and a CL 1:7 for mine. But weight and it might not be a good choice for three gun are a factor. Same with HK etc.

The DD has a great rep but frankly they've never done anything for me. Good build quality and well know company but ultimately JAFAR.

The Stag is often under rated. Especially the Canadian ones from Arms East. They're like the DD in the fact that they are just regular AR rifles made very well. But they do have a lot of configurations including one specifically for 3 gun. I have a 2T (police style carbine not 3 gun orientated) and a target 6R (.5 moa guarantee target rifle). The ones we get are often better than in the US. Arms East has sold Canadian versions that are now listed in the US as enhanced versions. I would trust Walt to sell a good product. Of note Walt was also a Colt distributor and while I could have bought a Colt from him he recommended the Stag which was a lot less expensive but still considered in the Colt league. In fact I've seen Stag and Colt used by a local police agency. Both were provided by Arms East.

You won't go wrong with any of the stuff mentioned. The trick is to find the one best suited for the sport you'll be using the firearm in. I personally think this is the biggest criteria.

With building your own, it's fun and worth knowing but the cost often adds up along with the time. As you mentioned you want to get going now, I'd buy something ready to go. Do the project later in the off season etc. I've never shot three gun but I have no doubt there will be a lot to learn ie a steep learning curve at the beginning. When doing anything for a specialized purpose your gear and techniques will be specifically for that purpose.

Just to prove what I mean. I did some IDPA using my work gear. S&W 5946, 3 point safety holster etc. I did ok. But some of the guys competed and their gear along with training was specialized for that sport. While I didn't embarass myself it was clear that the slower 3 point safety holster, 12 pound DOA trigger and short sight radius weren't optimal along with clam shell grip instead of slide release technique etc. The purpose of those techniques and gear were for work use and were slow for competition use. You wouldn't be competitive. In my case it was fun and good practice. I was more concerned about work conditions than competition. But again if truly competing I would use the best gear and fastest techniques.
 
thanks epoxy very good comments there!
I'm actually leaning towards the stag as we speak, I'm off to banff/calgary for the stampede, ill look into buying a rig when i get back, it will most probably be the stag.
 
It's too bad your purchase didn't coincide with the sale that CRAFM just had - they had a sale that included their stock of JP Enterprise rifles and as you are looking at a 3-gun specific rifle, I don't think you would have been disappointed with one.

They do have one in stock for $2,760 (16'' barrel) that'd be just over your budget, but with the sale it would have been a solid purchase.
 
BenL said:
It's too bad your purchase didn't coincide with the sale that CRAFM just had - they had a sale that included their stock of JP Enterprise rifles and as you are looking at a 3-gun specific rifle, I don't think you would have been disappointed with one.

They do have one in stock for $2,760 (16'' barrel) that'd be just over your budget, but with the sale it would have been a solid purchase.
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they might be great rifles, but im staying away from boutique AR manufacturers for the rest of my life, I've had enough...
 
JP has been making competition AR's for well over a decade, and are far from inexperienced.
Many of the top competitors in 3gun use their rifles.
Eric Grauffel has started using JP rifles and is preparing to start competing in IPSC rifle competition.

I have one, have been running it hard for a little over 2 years now, and have only had one single failure to feed due to out of spec ammo.
Along with my Benelli M2, they are the most reliable firearms I own.

As far as MOA, JP rifles are sub MOA even with factory ammo.
I shot a 3 shot group with 75gr hornady factory ammo this spring, at 300 meters, that was less than an inch. And this is after many many rounds at 3 gun competitions speeds. Barrel routinely gets burning hot.
I have never shot a group larger than MOA.

The Stag 3g is a solid rifle as well, but the compensator that comes with it isn't the best.
It over compensates for muzzle climb and actually pushes the rifle down.
I'd swap comps for something more proven.
 
pauls said:
JP has been making competition AR's for well over a decade, and are far from inexperienced.
Many of the top competitors in 3gun use their rifles.
Eric Grauffel has started using JP rifles and is preparing to start competing in IPSC rifle competition.

I have one, have been running it hard for a little over 2 years now, and have only had one single failure to feed due to out of spec ammo.
Along with my Benelli M2, they are the most reliable firearms I own.

As far as MOA, JP rifles are sub MOA even with factory ammo.
I shot a 3 shot group with 75gr hornady factory ammo this spring, at 300 meters, that was less than an inch. And this is after many many rounds at 3 gun competitions speeds. Barrel routinely gets burning hot.
I have never shot a group larger than MOA.

The Stag 3g is a solid rifle as well, but the compensator that comes with it isn't the best.
It over compensates for muzzle climb and actually pushes the rifle down.
I'd swap comps for something more proven.
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A little off topic, but does your m2 have a pistol grip? ive been looking for an m2 for a little bit now and the only ones ive found so far come with a pistol grip and i really really dont want a pistol grip.
 
no.
For me, it just feels wrong. I point the shotgun faster and more naturally with the traditional field stock.

Hardly anyone at the very competitive levels uses a pistol grip shotgun, but it is personal preference.
 
ARmike said:
http://www.irunguns.ca/store/rifles-for-sale-canada?page=2

Any of those Colts. You'll thank me later :)
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Unless I misunderstood the reasons why the OP is looking for an AR, I think he wants one in order to compete in 3gun or other practical rifle competitions.

In my opinion, the must haves are, free float barrel, long handguard, and nice trigger.
Don't think too many of the colts on that page would qualify.

Only colt I would consider for these games is something like this:
http://www.coltcompetitionrifle.com/Firearms/ColtProModelCRP18.aspx#3912-specifications

Since Mikethebike is looking to purchase asap, and is considering the Stag, I'd say go to Arms East and get the 3G
http://www.armseast.com/store/right_hand_rifles/stag_arms_3g_r_competition_rifle/
Its on sale right now.
The $180 saved due to its sale price, buy the compensator you like and you are set.
My first AR was a Stag (model 2T I think), and I still have it.
Has never let me down once.

If the JP is in your price range, its a turn key rifle, ready for competition, available now at CRAFM

If the shooting sports you intend to compete in are more CQB, "tactical" type matches, then you might want to look at something shorter or something with the features that help you play those games.

If you are shooting the 3 gun like they shoot in the US, then I've already shared my opinions.
 
Yes i want a 3gun ar, ready to go, so no the colts wont do.

i do intend on cqb at a later date but i have a jewish hammer for that.
 
Building your own...could be a good option here as well...Lots of quality parts available and you can tweak it to your own liking....Building also makes the platform familiar and easy to work with...
 
mikethebike said:
they might be great rifles, but im staying away from boutique AR manufacturers for the rest of my life, I've had enough...
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And therein lies the problem - bundling JP Enterprises & CA in the same category/quality level.

It is your money so obviously you will do as you feel best, but I think JP has been around the competition scene long enough to be able to back up the price tag of their rifles.
 
KAC has an awesome reputation, I just don't like a quad rail for competition.
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Not really a quad rail in the regular sense on the new rifles. ;)

sr15_e3_iws_lpr.jpg
 
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