I never have seen this before.
- Thread starter pharaoh2
- Start date
unstableryan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Beautiful Okanagan Valley
I love the idea, could you imagine how hard it is to clean out the wound from one of those? Doc would be busy for days. kinda like #7 1/2 at close range.
Other than pistol, availiable in 7.62 x 39, 308 and 30-06. Looks like it has the potential for a good coyote / varmint round. I'd by a box to try. 308 and 30-06 listed on their site for $28.93 for 6.
30-06 SPRG 130 GR. 3100 FPS/ 2774 FTLBS GLASER SAFETY SLUG BLUE 6 ROUND PACK
30-06 SPRG 130 GR. 3100 FPS/ 2774 FTLBS GLASER SAFETY SLUG BLUE 6 ROUND PACK
The cost of Glaser safety slugs makes them prohibitive for all but the wealthiest shooter. To adequately train with such ammo prior to carrying it(if we could) would cost a fortune. The perceived performance enhancements of such rounds often appeal to those who lack in basic marksmanship skills. Yet many continue to believe that the increased terminal effects will somehow improve their skills or are an effective compensation for the lack thereof.
It's all about where you shoot, not what you shoot.
TDC
It's all about where you shoot, not what you shoot.
TDC
I never said it was designed to improve your skills. My point was that many choose HP ammo or "wonder" ammo and believe or feel that it will buy them some room for error when placing shots. The concern with over penetration is a relatively non issue. Concerning yourself with the possible effects of over penetration while neglecting the fact that 80% of shots fired in a defensive situation are misses will only lead to bad results. The possible dangers with over penetration are greatly overshadowed by the very real possibility of what could happen to your wife and/or kids should you decide not to engage the scumbag(s). I'll take my chances with OP and rounds exiting my home over resting my health in the hands of some unwanted a$$hole who is intent on doing me harm.
Why anyone would choose a handgun over a rifle for HD is beyond me. All handgun calibres are highly inefficient and severely anemic when compared to shotguns or rifles. Contrary to long standing belief, 223 in select loads will penetrate fewer walls than 9mm. With the added effect of fragmentation and severe permanent wound cavities.
TDC
Why anyone would choose a handgun over a rifle for HD is beyond me. All handgun calibres are highly inefficient and severely anemic when compared to shotguns or rifles. Contrary to long standing belief, 223 in select loads will penetrate fewer walls than 9mm. With the added effect of fragmentation and severe permanent wound cavities.
TDC
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Glaser Safety Slugs have been around for years, and outside of a few specialized uses have been widely ignored. They lack adequate penetration for serious work, and as mentioned they are cost prohibitive. They might make a decent varmint round (if you could afford them) but even at normal pistol ranges won't cause deep enough damage to be useful to LEO's.
You're a tad contradictory there, TDC. On the one hand you say shot placement, not the round, is what matters, and then on the other you go "but I'd use a rifle because pistols all suck". If only shot placement matters, then a pistol should be perfectly fine in the right hands; if the round matters, then the people who purchase JHP, etc to attempt to compensate for the "anemic" performance of pistols are justified in doing so.
And of course everyone knows the shotgun is the optimum home defense weapon, blah blah blah.
Check my post again. I never stated that shot placement was the only critical factor during a defensive gunfight. I indicated that shot placement is far more important than what is being shot. If a handgun is all that is available, go with it. If you have a choice, get a rifle or shotgun. In either case it is still the operator who makes the shot not the equipment.
As far as JHP rounds go. There is no guarantee that they will expand. There's no guarantee they will incapacitate the individual(s). However, as I stated earlier. Many who swear by HP ammo or believe brand "A" to be superior to brand "b" or FMJ are delusional in their thinking. Shot placement makes the shot, not the round involved. HP ammo adds some level of advantage if it performs as advertised. The hype over Glaser safety slugs, or Speer gold dot or any of the other common HP rounds is nothing more than uninformed ideas regarding the supposed effects of HP ammo. Many of the HP fans fail to understand the importance of shot placement and put their faith in the design of the projectile rather than sound skills and tactics.
Handguns are anemic when compared to rifles or shotguns. A handgun will always lose to a long gun. So why choose a handgun for home defense?? Same goes for sub guns. At the end of the day, they're still running handgun ammo with handgun like performance.
TDC
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Interesting expirament.
I would like to have seen how the Federal EFMJ would have performed.
Do you honestly believe that this ammo will shoot so much different from
FMJ? If one is a marksman using FMJ, he is still a marksman after few boxes
of this ammo. You don't need to practice with ammo, you need to practice
with ONE handgun. The same handgun over and over, until your hand, arms
becomes one with the gun.
- Location
- vancouverstan
cenario( the crook waits around a corner of your home. you begin to enter the room with your rifle barrel raised, the crook grabs the tip if the barrel and rips it from your grasp before you know whats happening. you can guess what happens next)
cenario(you hold your 45 at the hip the assailant waits around the corner. the assailant jumps out and you empty the mag into him. with a 45 entrance and 7 shots the assailant is dead as dead gets.)
cenario(its midnight somone is bangin on your door, fearing home invasion you load up the shotgun and go to the door. you see its just the neiborhood busybody wanting to complain about somthing. you open the door with the shotgun behind the door but still in hand. the nosy nebior pushes the door open as he yells at you and sees the shotgun. he then accusses you of threatening him with a gun. he runs home to call the cops, they then arrive and the hassle begins. eventualy after some legal fees and headaches you are deemed in the right, but still heave a nasty headache.)
cenario(its midnight somone is bangin on your door, fearing home invasion you load up the 45 and go to the door. you see its just the neiborhood busybody wanting to complain about somthing.you stash the 45 in your rear waistband and cover it with your shirt. you then tell the busybody where to stick it and slam the door.)
cenerio(your home is invaded, you defend it with your cz 858. because it looks like a ak the press jump on it and make you into the bad guy. your guns are taken away and you do 3 months in jail)
possible cenario(your home is invaded, you defend it with your 45. because of recent anti gun media the press jump on it and make you into the bad guy. your guns are taken away and you do 3 months in jail.)
all but the last are true storys that where published in the shooters choice magazine last year.
so you see both have there own merit
always remember. in these situations its often the first one to call the cops that is first seen as in the right.
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Actually the point of impact with safety slugs, is quite radically different from FMJ. This is because the projectile is lighter and travelling at much higher velocity. Reliability can also be affected, especially in self-loaders, and the gun should be properly tuned to shoot the ammo. This is why PMC only sold their "Ultramag" ammo for revolvers - the projectile weight in 38 Spl was 66 grains at 1650 fps in a 4" revolver. An equivalent load in 9mm lacked the recoil energy to reliably cycle an autopistol. The sad fact is that most "super rounds" aren't, and that any properly placed shot that penetrates will do the job on any game.
Obviously you have a weak or misinformed grasp on carry gear. As was mentioned, the weight of the projectile can and does interfere with POI. More importantly, it is best to train with your intended carry ammo to ensure reliable feeding and operation. It is also a good idea to check your carry ammo during low light/no light conditions for muzzle flash or the lack thereof. Its your funeral, you operate how you see fit.
Remember, in these situations the local LE usually arrive after the crime has been committed and are quick to process the scene for evidence.
I'll take my chances with the media, the law, and the scumbag. I'll place my bets with a rifle in hand, you can run what you wish.
TDC
