I seem to be damaging shell holders :(

kb007

kb007

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I've got an odd thing happening with the shell holders on my RCBS Supreme press.

I seem to be somehow damaging them when I'm sizing 338LM. I'm using the std #14 shell holder from RCBS and RCBS FL sizing die. I put the die in the press as recomended (in til it touches the shell holder, then in a 1/8 of a turn).

After a couple of dozen cases, it seems the shell holder is getting somehow bent just enough to make it hard to get the cases in / out. Cases are all 338LM Lapua brass. It doens't affect every case, prolly 1/2 of them. I've had at least 2 shell holders do this to me this past weekend. I also tried backing off the die til it just touches and same thing happened to a second shell holder.

Anyone have this happen and what did you do to stop it happening?
 
Using Lyman spray lube, I usually have the cases in a small plastic container and give them a good spray or 2. I try to make sure I get spray on the outside of the cases as well as some inside the neck. I'm full length re-sizing, so it take a little effort to get the handle back up again.
 
If your putting a lot of down force on the press handle you could be damaging the rim of the case.

Brass is softer than steel and I doubt you are warping any steel parts of your press. I have had my Rockchucker press since 1973 and never damaged any part of the press, "BUT" I have damaged my share of case rims.

The weakest link is the cartridge case and this is where I would look for the problem.
 
kb007 said:
Using Lyman spray lube, I usually have the cases in a small plastic container and give them a good spray or 2. I try to make sure I get spray on the outside of the cases as well as some inside the neck. I'm full length re-sizing, so it take a little effort to get the handle back up again.
Click to expand...

Hummm. Are you getting that dry "tumping" sound as you lower the ram? Maybe try some of the wax lubes like Hornady Unique case lube?
 
"...then in a 1/8 of a turn..." Take that out. The shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the die and no more. Highly unlikely your damaging either the shell holder of the die though. Like bigedp51 says you'll damage the case first. The shell holder isn't the issue though.
"...After a couple of dozen cases..." Suspect your spray lube isn't lubing well enough. A pad and RCBS case lube works every time.
 
Whether you turn in 1/8-1/4 turn after the die touches the shell holder, or turn the die out 1/8-1/4 all depends on the die, the rifle, and the brass. Ideally you would turn it whichever way is required to bump the shoulder just enough to chamber properly. Neither way is wrong or right, it all depends on what is required for proper sizing with the equipment in front of you.

Once again, ignore sunray, he is just regurgitating info he read on the net with no comprehension of the subject.
 
Are you SURE it is the shellholder being damaged?
Or is your 338 Lapua brass expanding somewhat in the head/rim area
so as to make the case hard to insert in the shellholder?
If the latter is the situation, you may want to back off your load a bit.
Regards, Dave.
 
I'll try a little more lube next time. Most of them are 1F, but not from my rifle, that's why I want to do FL size on them. I did actually have a shell plate (in 338LM) break a few months ago, it bent downward on the edge near the opening for the case base. Guess that's why I'm presuming it's the shell holder, tho it does make sense that the brass is way softer than even the softest steel used for the shell holder.
 
Cleftwynd said:
Once again, ignore sunray, he is just regurgitating info he read on the net with no comprehension of the subject.
Click to expand...

Cleftwynd, I like your posts, your even smarter when you get back from fishing trips. ;) Just do me a favor and hit sunray over the head with a ball pen hammer and leave an impression on his mind for putting my name in his post so his post has more credence.

Below is for sunray to read.

"Here is how to adjust the resizing die to full length resize cases. First, run the ram to the top of the reloading press stroke with the proper shell holder installed. Second, screw the resizing die into the press until it stops against the elevated shell holder. Third, all play must be removed from the system. To do this, lower the ram and turn the die 1/8 to 1/4 turn farther into the press. Check the adjustment by returning the shell holder to the top of its stroke--you should feel the press cam over center. Now set the large lock ring and your die is adjusted to properly full length resize cases."

How to Adjust Reloading Dies
http://www.chuckhawks.com/adjust_reloading_dies.htm
 
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kb007

Below is a exaggerated example of a over pressure load and how the pressure expands the base of the case and why it "might" be causing your problem. You could also have some defective cases and the brass is too soft and the problem is caused by normal pressures.

The dotted lines show the original shape of the cases.

flow.gif
 
Ed, where do you get all these cool photos ??? No one has mentioned the possiblity of a "Dirty Die" just wondering.
bigedp51 said:
kb007

Below is a exaggerated example of a over pressure load and how the pressure expands the base of the case and why it "might" be causing your problem. You could also have some defective cases and the brass is too soft and the problem is caused by normal pressures.

The dotted lines show the original shape of the cases.

flow.gif
Click to expand...
 
got to go said:
Ed, where do you get all these cool photos ??? No one has mentioned the possiblity of a "Dirty Die" just wondering.
Click to expand...

I have lots of illustrations because my two dyslexic typing fingers are terrible with words. :redface:

I never thought of a dirty die because you Canadians have socialized medicine and cleanliness is stressed in your health care programs.

Are you suggesting the OP doesn't brush after every resizing? OMG, kb007 could your dies be dirty and do you have longitudinal scratches on your cases. Are you using tar sand to lube your cases?
The plot thickens...........................

Actually its a very good point and I never thought about it because I toss my dies in my vibrating tumbler and polish them once every blue moon. I also wet tumble my brass with SS media to remove any dirt and grit from the cases.
 
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kb007 said:
I'm full length re-sizing, so it take a little effort to get the handle back up again.
Click to expand...

Does this mean you're getting resistance on the upstroke when you're withdrawing the case from the die? If so the case neck is dragging on the expander ball. A little lube inside the case neck will remove most of the drag. This should also minimize case neck stretching which will reduce the amount of trimming you will have to do.
 
Yes, I'm getting resistance on the upstroke as the case is withdrawn from the die (about 1/2 way up as I presume it's re-sizing the neck). I do ensure there is lube inside the case mouth, so it's not huge pressure. All of these cases are 1F not from my rifle.

I clean my dies fairly often as before I started regular cleaning I was getting the little indents from too much lube. Haven't had that happen in a while, which probably means I went too far on the not enough lube side perhaps. No scratches, so I think my hygene is fairly good ;) However, I don't think the die cleanliness is involved here as the issue is when I try to put a new 1F case into the shell holder before it even goes into the die. Clearly something is off either with the case or the shell holder.

My process is to de-cap / size then ultasonic clean, would it make sense to clean first with the primers still in and then de-cap/size? Not sure how that would change anyting, but am open to suggestions.

Interesting about the over-pressure possibility - as I said, these are 1F brass and I have no clue what load was used, whether they were factory loads or new brass with hand loads, factory loads or what. I was told they were 1F from the SQ in Quebec, but no other details. If over pressure were the case, will using a FL sizing die fix that or is the case garbage at that point? I presume I would see the difference with a micrometer on the base of the case?
 
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The problem is with the case not fitting in the shell holder and not the die itself? A rimmed case that has trouble fitting in the shell holder?
 
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