I shake my head...

hoytcanon said:
Here we go again... another sportsman that does not understand the physics at work with archery equipment. Guns and bows are different beasts and they kill entirely differently... I lack the will to explain it all again this late... suffice it to say, that a bow of hunting weight equipped with a razor sharp broadhead tipped arrow, has the potential to kill game (within their respective effective ranges) equivalent to a .300 WM NOT a .223.
Click to expand...

How can you compare a large hunting bow with a 350fps velocity is even in the same level as a 300 WM? A .223 with a quality bullet at bow range 40 yards will do massive damage to the lungs and the moose will die quick.
 
No one I have met who uses a .22 center fire for hunting aims for the lungs or uses factory ammo. YMMV

These folk would claim their rifles are "more accurate", but even they use a .243 or .270 for moose.
 
RayHill said:
How can you compare a large hunting bow with a 350fps velocity is even in the same level as a 300 WM? A .223 with a quality bullet at bow range 40 yards will do massive damage to the lungs and the moose will die quick.
Click to expand...

Ray... I have been bowhunting for 40 years and have taken upwards of 200+ biggame animals... an arrow through the lungs causes massive damage and the animal dies quick... non-bowhunters don't understand the efficiency of a broadhead tipped arrow.

This one died in its tracks in less than 20 secs;



This 550 pound boar (21 15/16") made a ten second dash and died within 30 yards;



This buck tried to run when the arrow zipped through his lungs, but his back legs buckled and he leaped straight into the air, landed on his back and died without a kick;




I could go on and on... this rapid lethality is the norm when an arrow perforates the lungs of an animal... most of the time, they will travel some distance after the shot, because unlike bullets, arrows do not cause "shock" trauma... rather, they cause massive hemorrhage, and thoraxic collapse... no air, no blood, no move. A proper shot results in a massive blood trail and a quick demise.

The difference between the way bullets and arrows kill is significant to the misunderstandings of many people, and contributes to the disrespect shown for archery hunting.

Bullets are designed to induce massive trauma, they travel at high rates of speed, expanding rapidly and cause shock and trauma on a short wound channel, they are designed to "shed" their energy. Arrows on the other hand, have more mass, are designed to stay together (not deform), and having razor sharp blades, they slice tissue on a long wound channel, arrows are designed to "resist shedding" their energy.

I say that the broadhead tipped arrow is akin to the .300 WM in it's ability to efficiently kill animals (within their respective ranges). A hunting bow is a much more lethal instrument than a .223... and a better comparison to common big game cartridges... "range" is the fly in the ointment for understanding from many... the two tools are different also in that the bullet can do its work at 500 yards where an arrow does it at under 40 yards... but again, within their respective ranges, they are both lethal and effective.
 
Last edited:
hoytcanon said:
Bigger "IS" better until you get big "enough" to get the job done thoroughly and effectively in 99%+ of scenarios... not just when the stars all align to perfection... so that some chick or dude can shoot a frggin' moose with "hollow points" from a .223!
Click to expand...

I have to agree with that... Until you get to 308 level, anything over that, you just dont need really but nothing wrong using bigger if it give you confidence... Just saying. JP.
 
In the 50's my dad and his friend went dear hunting with his 300 savage . He had his Cooey 22 with him as well. The dear came along...the savage didn't fire...so he shot it with the 22. Our freezer was full of yummy dear meat. All us kids had plenty to eat.
 
lone ranger said:
In the 50's my dad and his friend went dear hunting with his 300 savage . He had his Cooey 22 with him as well. The dear came along...the savage didn't fire...so he shot it with the 22. Our freezer was full of yummy dear meat. All us kids had plenty to eat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but how do you think she felt about that...
 
Hoytcannon is right, bows are totally differnt than firearms and you cannot compare them.

Bows bleed an animal out - it has nothing to do with energy.

You could take a sharp paring knife and stab a moose in a neck artery with about 3 ft/lbs of energy and it would bleed to death - surely nobody thinks it was the 3 lbs of energy transfer that killed the animal, however.
 
hoytcanon said:
Here we go again... another sportsman that does not understand the physics at work with archery equipment. Guns and bows are different beasts and they kill entirely differently... I lack the will to explain it all again this late... suffice it to say, that a bow of hunting weight equipped with a razor sharp broadhead tipped arrow, has the potential to kill game (within their respective effective ranges) equivalent to a .300 WM NOT a .223.
Click to expand...
Hey Hoyt, if you had to put your dog down, what weapon would you use? Bow or rifle?
 

No skin in this debate.

Me shooting 90gr Bergers from my FTR 223 at 500m. Muzzle velocity 2850fps or thereabouts. 1st hit 90gr BT - left and high of center.

2nd shot 90gr VLD low but centered.

Not recommending anything for hunting. This is purely 2 shots on target ... and surprised me on the result.

223 with a 55gr SP at 30yds..... plausible. Ideal - no but alot of deer and hogs have been hammered by AR's in the southern US.

YMMV

Jerry
 
track said:
Hey Hoyt, if you had to put your dog down, what weapon would you use? Bow or rifle?
Click to expand...

The vet...

And then a quiet ceremony with family remembering all the great times and service of a loyal friend.


If you have a dog Track, stay away from the butter knives.
 
hoytcanon said:
The vet...

And then a quiet ceremony with family remembering all the great times and service of a loyal friend.


If you have a dog Track, stay away from the butter knives.
Click to expand...
You still did not choose from the two that were offered..........Bow or rifle?
 
track said:
You still did not choose from the two that were offered..........Bow or rifle?
Click to expand...

True to form, Track, your question is ridiculous...

If I was going to lung shoot my dog... which is akin to what you would be doing on a game animal, I would choose the bow... how many bow kills have you observed, Track???

It is a peaceful, low-impact way to go... I once double lung shot a whitetail buck that was feeding on acorns, at the sound of the string, it took one jump and looked around, and then went back to feeding, only to fall over a minute later, stone cold dead... no fuss, no muss...

I would NOT lung shoot my dog with a firearm...

So, you would say that it only makes sense to put it down with a shot to the head... ok, lets roll with that (putting you and your dog into this scenario, because this ain't what I would ever do)... nobody should or would put down a loyal friend by aiming an instrument designed to slice and cause hemorrhage, at a solid bone mass (cranium)... this is where shock is required, ergo a bullet... or for you, a ballpean hammer, you cold hearted, son-of-a-*****...

My last comment on the "Shoot your dog with gun or bow" genius scenario...
 
The two "under powered" rifles being lumped together here are the .22 and the .223 . I am far from being an expert on this but even they are far different from each other
 
hoytcanon said:
True to form, Track, your question is ridiculous...

If I was going to lung shoot my dog... which is akin to what you would be doing on a game animal, I would choose the bow... how many bow kills have you observed, Track???

It is a peaceful, low-impact way to go... I once double lung shot a whitetail buck that was feeding on acorns, at the sound of the string, it took one jump and looked around, and then went back to feeding, only to fall over a minute later, stone cold dead... no fuss, no muss...

I would NOT lung shoot my dog with a firearm...

So, you would say that it only makes sense to put it down with a shot to the head... ok, lets roll with that (putting you and your dog into this scenario, because this ain't what I would ever do)... nobody should or would put down a loyal friend by aiming an instrument designed to slice and cause hemorrhage, at a solid bone mass (cranium)... this is where shock is required, ergo a bullet... or for you, a ballpean hammer, you cold hearted, son-of-a-*****...

My last comment on the "Shoot your dog with gun or bow" genius scenario...
Click to expand...
Jeez, only a straight forward question. You sure become emotional when cornered. Being that your a "know it all, et al", I assumed a logical response........I guess not. Of course most who are not an intellect, such as yourself, would choose a rifle to end the suffering. HENCE, rifles kill better than bows, however; you probably have some scientific formula that contradicts common sense. BTW, are those the only three big animals that you harvested?..........keep seeing those photo's all the time.
 
track said:
Of course most who are not an intellect, such as yourself, would choose a rifle to end the suffering. HENCE, rifles kill better than bows...
Click to expand...

Track, stop writing... you are digging yourself into a hole of stupidity...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom