I shot my FN FAL today - legally

happydude said:
Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense...... :wink:

No ignorance involved... the government has declared that his firearm is 'restricted' simply as that.

I have a 12" bbl shotgun, OAL is 24" ... it is non-restricted. I also have a 14" shotgun it is 'prohibited'.... you can also buy the same firearms as long as you are registered for them...

The law decreed that this is the way... and I fought but lost...the law is right...

the firearms are:

a 12" stoeger .410 with short LOP - non restricted,
and,
a 14" REM-870 - prohibited, but grandfathered as the barrel was chopped by an individual - not a manufacturer - before the laws passed that would prohibit it...
.... no worries really as you can buy a non-restricted 14" from several manufac's now.... actually if I buy a 14" barrel and put it on the same SG I am now creating a NR firearm... go figure!?!

the laws are FUBAR!

thus

.gov says...
 
IMHO, a registration document erroneously issued due to a clerical error, would not set precedent......

In fact a prosecutor might well argue that the owner must have/should have known that it was issued in error......

If anyone interested in this particular instance is reading this thread, there will be no doubt in their minds.....

It's a case of a bad law that tends to make criminals of honest folks..... :(
 
OK, legal beagles, jump in here, but from my limited understanding of Canadian law.

1) To get a conviction, the Crown must prove that both Actus Reas, and Mens Reas have occured. In English, that a crime has occured, and that there was the intent to commit the crime.

2) The crime is in question. Taking a prohib out of it's registered address without a SAP is a crime. However, as Skip points out, the owner can claim with some authority that his gun seems to be placed outside the definition of prohib. In the case of the FN/FAL, the registration of the gun has come under review at least twice. In the early 90's, the FN/FAL was subject to an inspection and re-registration. The same gun would have been subject to a second review when the registration was entered into the new registry. The Feds have had two opportunities in recent history to reclassify this gun, and they find it to be a restricted, rather than prohibited firearm. The owner while required to be aware of and to comply with the current firearms regulation, has no duty to assume his documentation is in error given the level of scrutiny. Why would a reasonable man assume his level of expertese should exceed an entire department of paid experts?

Given that the owner has every reason to assume his particular gun is properly registered, and that he has an ATT that allows him to transport restricted rifles, a reasonable man could believe that transporting his restricted rifle to an approved range was a legal activity.



Now, do I personally believe that there is a subclass of FN/FAL rifles that falls out of the prohib class and is instead only restricted, NO. Then again, I would have assumed the same of all the Sterling SMG varients if someone had not pushed the issue.
 
You might be surprised if you call the CFC about it....

I tried to buy a C/A HK-g3 from a business in Edmonton. It was registerd as a 12(5) but should have been 12(3). They wanted to sell it to me so we called the CFC to try and get it 'classed' correctly.

We were told NO change would be made...regardless what the verifier had to say.

Of course, that was only changing from one prohib class to another

Restricted to prohibited is a little different animal
 
Given that the owner has every reason to assume his particular gun is properly registered, and that he has an ATT that allows him to transport restricted rifles, a reasonable man could believe that transporting his restricted rifle to an approved range was a legal activity.

Exactly... I, for one, think you should all stop second-guessing the CFC all the time. Obviously there is something about this particular FAL that puts it outside of the scope of the OIC.

I mean... some of you really have no faith in the government. Its quite shocking.
 
As I see it, the regulating authority, in this case the CFC, has by excercising their discretion to determine classification of your gun in the registry, deemed that your firearm is not a prohibited device, but rather a restricted rifle.

The owner is not responsible under the firearms act to determine if a gun is restricted or prohibited. Only the regulatin authority can do so - you are only expected to follow the laws as they apply to a firearm once you have been TOLD what the class is.

I'd use it until they reverse themselves, which knowing gov't they likely won't do. Gov't is notorious for going to great expense ot prove they are not wrong. If you called them on it, they'd likely try to avert embarassment by trying to prove your rifle is somehow excluded from the OIC rather than admit they made an inept decision. :oops:
 
Is it your fault when the sign says parking when in reality it hasnt been changed to no parking?

Is it your fault when the sign says 50MPH when last year it was supposed to be changed to 25MPH?

Just cause they dint do there job doesnt mean you have to do it for them.
 
I can see the court case now. The CFC lawyer stand up and says:

"Your honor, the people will show that Mr.X Willfully undertook to transport a prohibited rifle to a range for the purpose of discharging it. We will show that, blah blah blah..."

Then your lawyer stands up and says:

"Your honor, the accused would remind the prosecutor that the People, by way of the CFC, issued legal documents to the accused stating the item in question was, in fact, not a prohibited rifle but rather a restricted one. I would refer your honor to defence exhibit A..."

The judge then thorws the matter out and doesn't even recommend for trial because clearly you have gov't produced documentation informing you of the restricted status of your rifle. You are not a firearms expert. You are a reasonable man who justly assumes the gov't experts provided you with the proper information as is their mandate. Period.
 
Guess one of us slipped through the cracks. Have fun while it lasts, If I were you I'd be very carefull about going to the range with it when other people are around. Might be someone there that'll flag down the cops or something. Good luck and enjoy. :D
 
I'm just curious how a case would unfold against the government, if a person with a R-PAL phoned up the CFC to purchase a 12-5 FAL and claimed it should be listed as a restricted rifle due to precedent?
 
I'm just curious how a case would unfold against the government, if a person with a R-PAL phoned up the CFC to purchase a 12-5 FAL and claimed it should be listed as a restricted rifle due to precedent?

In theory it would work. It would be expensive because you can bet your left $%& that the goverment will fight it tooth and nail, but it could work.

The other downside to it it that the goverment will check to see who has a registered restickted FAL, so Bud might wind up in trouble...
 
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