i think i might have become a .....

NAA said:
If John Browning had lived long enough he would've invented polymer & the Glock, too. :p

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NAA.
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I got rid of my 1911's after getting fed up taking them down. I think they survive because they are an American classic designed by the deservedly highly respected John Browning. In 1911 it was an amazing advance in handguns and Browning certainly deserves the accolades heaped on him to this day. But I agree with the above post. Had Browning, arguably the greatest inventor of small arms in our history not passed away in 1926, I believe he would have produced his version of the Glock. I've got 3 Glocks, love them all. Can't beat the simplicity and reliability which is exactly what you want in most any situation. I'll never part with my 17 or 26, and although I love my 30, it's on the market only because I don't need expensive .45 caliber to blow holes in paper. I have never come across any gun that was easier to take down and service. Wish Glock had invented my Rugar Mk. III. Now there's I gun I love, but love to curse at the same time.
 
TDC said:
Beretta won the US Army contract on dirty backroom deals and because they would setup a US manufacturing plant. The SIG pistol clearly won the trials(if you wish to do the reading) but was disqualified because they refused to setup shop in the US. Beretta's are overly complex, heavy, large, garbage controls, and have a short service life. As for What Mr. Langdon uses/used. I don't really care, he's a competitive shooter who shoots for a living and a sample size of one. Beretta is considered a non contender in the MIL/LE contract market now, and very few are seen either in competition or professionally outside the US Army. Keep in mind that Beretta is one of the oldest firearms makers out there, and they no longer hold a commanding portion of any market.

Traditional double action guns are dumb. Traditional double action guns with slide mounted safeties/decockers are even more dumb. Long crappy trigger pull, with an exposed trigger bar, exposed barrel, milled front sight(on some models), slides that separate, frames that crack in half, and a three piece locking block that is to be replaced every 6000 rounds. Not exactly great attributes, but feel free to spend your money on one..

TDC
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The US required that the pistol be made on home soil, SIG was either unable or unwilling to do so. SIG did do better in many trials, but not in all, it wasn't 'cleary' better. SIG also failed so bad in one that the US took out the test completely so that SIG wouldn't be automatically disqualified. Evolution mandates complexity, and it being heavy/ large I personally tend to like. It feels like it will survive a nuclear war. The exposed barrel on a 92 series pistol is also a very good feature. It enables better cooling for the barrel, easier clearing of abstructions and failures and loading/ ejection of ammunition. The locking block system, which isn't rated at 6,000 rounds but 22,000, also provides better accuracy and operation for surpressors as the barrel travels in line. As for Ernest Langon, well he simply showed that 92's can be VERY competitive in pro shooting. Double action guns were/ are typically required for law enforcement/ military purpose based on the idea that with a heavier first trigger pull it will give you an extra second to make sure that shooting that target is the right course of action. Also, the slide mounted safety was required by the Italian army. Not all 92 models have it. The only time I've ever heard of 92's having slides that seperated was back during inital testing in the 80's. It happened three times, and all three causes were found to be from the US army supplying ammo with too much powder in it.

Say what you will, but the original US-Beretta contract was only for 5 years. The US has chose to resign several times since then, the last few being in '08 and '12 for another 125,000 pistols. Obviously, someone likes them, and todays M9A1 is a much different from the original 92 anyway. Is the 92 series now an outdated platform? Absolutely. Did it do a great job during its time? You bet. But to say they're all garbage is simply just wrong. Have you ever been lucky enough to handle a Beretta Elite II? The action on that puppy will even make a Kimber owner feel jealous.
 
Hypox!a said:
The US required that the pistol be made on home soil, SIG was either unable or unwilling to do so. SIG did do better in many trials, but not in all, it wasn't 'cleary' better. SIG also failed so bad in one that the US took out the test completely so that SIG wouldn't be automatically disqualified. Evolution mandates complexity, and it being heavy/ large I personally tend to like. It feels like it will survive a nuclear war. The exposed barrel on a 92 series pistol is also a very good feature. It enables better cooling for the barrel, easier clearing of abstructions and failures and loading/ ejection of ammunition. The locking block system, which isn't rated at 6,000 rounds but 22,000, also provides better accuracy and operation for surpressors as the barrel travels in line. As for Ernest Langon, well he simply showed that 92's can be VERY competitive in pro shooting. Double action guns were/ are typically required for law enforcement/ military purpose based on the idea that with a heavier first trigger pull it will give you an extra second to make sure that shooting that target is the right course of action. Also, the slide mounted safety was required by the Italian army. Not all 92 models have it. The only time I've ever heard of 92's having slides that seperated was back during inital testing in the 80's. It happened three times, and all three causes were found to be from the US army supplying ammo with too much powder in it.

Say what you will, but the original US-Beretta contract was only for 5 years. The US has chose to resign several times since then, the last few being in '08 and '12 for another 125,000 pistols. Obviously, someone likes them, and todays M9A1 is a much different from the original 92 anyway. Is the 92 series now an outdated platform? Absolutely. Did it do a great job during its time? You bet. But to say they're all garbage is simply just wrong. Have you ever been lucky enough to handle a Beretta Elite II? The action on that puppy will even make a Kimber owner feel jealous.
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Thanks for the history lesson, all old news. The US mil resigns because its easy to support a system that's already in service as opposed to changing to a new and better system. MIL types spend very little time with a handgun so its not a huge priority, and its never frontline personnel making the decision.

I've shot a good number of Beretta pistols, they're large, heavy and offer nothing revolutionary. Far too complex with garbage controls, and Kimber's are ok if you're into another outdated dinosaur design. Say what you will, Beretta is a dead breed in the firearms industry and for good reason.

TDC
 
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