i want a milsurp for my first rifle, but i don't know which

[Butcherbill]

first of all thanks for the replies; i didn't expect to get so much attention after just posting and going to bed

my budget is in the range of 500 dollars, but i can probably tighten my belt on stuff like groceries and add a few more if necessary.
they don't absolutely have to be non-sporterized, though would be a bonus, and i am not exactly sure on what i want to hunt but i'd assume it's probably anything i can find around lethbridge area.
i am located in edmonton though, for school, starting next week since i'm on reading week break at the moment.
i do want a scope to be mounted or to be able to be mounted but i guess this would 1) rocket the price if the proper scope is mounted w/o damaging the rifle permanently or 2) has to make the rifle sporterized, so really i have a mixed opinion.
i'll definitely look out and read up on mauser series

finally - i am not extremely concerned with pricing of ammunition since i will be reloading.

Go for the Enfield if that’s the case, check out the Addley no smith mount for the No.4. It attaches with two bolts and is rock solid and can be mounted on a full wood or sporterized rifle, if you’re reloading I’d def take the Enfield over the Mosin for hunting and you be able to shoot it at the range without breaking the bank. You can hunt any large game in North America with the .303 cartridge.

 

[Suther]

My personal opinion is don't bother with a scope, and get a real hunting rifle for hunting. Nothing wrong with hunting with a milsurp, but if you're new to hunting they're less than ideal.

Once you've got more experience with shooting and hunting, then consider taking your milsurp out, but they tend to be heavier, sights aren't the best, scoping is a hassle, and stuff like the savage axis, remington 783, TC Compass are all fine hunting rifles for a newb that won't have the drawbacks of a milsurp (and can be had for under $500).

Go for the Enfield if that’s the case, check out the Addley no smith mount for the No.4. It attaches with two bolts and is rock solid and can be mounted on a full wood or sporterized rifle, if you’re reloading I’d def take the Enfield over the Mosin for hunting and you be able to shoot it at the range without breaking the bank. You can hunt any large game in North America with the .303 cartridge.

Yeah, but the scope ends up way above the bore, and you end up with a chin weld at best. Stocks on milsurp rifles are designed for shooting with irons, so they rarely provide a decent cheek weld with a scope. Plus those mounts aren't cheap - $100+...

 

[altaberg]

I would start with a Mosin of some kind.

Another consideration is a Swedish Mauser. Good shooters and reasonably priced for what you get.

I am a big fan of Israeli Muasers in 7.62NATO. They come in all flavours from ex-German, Czech, Serbian to some FN-made in the 50ties.

Ammo is easier with the latter two.

 

[Butcherbill]

My personal opinion is don't bother with a scope, and get a real hunting rifle for hunting. Nothing wrong with hunting with a milsurp, but if you're new to hunting they're less than ideal.

Once you've got more experience with shooting and hunting, then consider taking your milsurp out, but they tend to be heavier, sights aren't the best, scoping is a hassle, and stuff like the savage axis, remington 783, TC Compass are all fine hunting rifles for a newb that won't have the drawbacks of a milsurp (and can be had for under $500).



Yeah, but the scope ends up way above the bore, and you end up with a chin weld at best. Stocks on milsurp rifles are designed for shooting with irons, so they rarely provide a decent cheek weld with a scope.

Yep, all valid points Suther. If I didn’t have a hard on for hunting with a sporter no.4, I would have something newer, lighter and cheaper to feed.

I’m a newer hunter (3rd year out) and I’ve been hunting with my Enfield since day one, no regrets but I’m fairly handy so tinkering with it is part of the fun. Something truly satisfying about filling the freezer with a sported Enfield, as Canadian as it gets in my eyes. The Addley mount and low rings keeps height over the bore reasonable and for me it’s a low chin weld but I plan on adding a cheek riser this winter.

 

[Suther]

Yep, all valid points Suther.

And I forgot to mention ammo availability. Reloading is great, until you realize your ammo box is on your bed at home and you've already driven 5 hours to go hunting (ask me how I know.... Lol)

With a modern rifle in a common caliber like 308, 3006 or 270 you can find ammo. Good luck finding 8mm mauser though!

I also started with an Enfield, but rather than spending money and effort on scoping it I bought a savage axis for $235 after rebate - and that included the scope! I saw no reason to buy a scope mount for $120 when twice that got me a far better rifle. Can't get an axis that cheap anymore, but $350-400 is still doable... I still plan to hunt with my Enfield, but I'm not going to bother with a scope, instead I'm going to work on my skills with iron sights.

OP if you do go the Enfield route, make sure it's a no4 not a no1. The no4 has better irons and is easier to scope.

 

[Butcherbill]

Good luck finding 150g PPU sp ammo at your small town CT haha, I know this first hand. Thank god my No.4 shoots S&B and Federal blue box very well.

 

[rhino519]

as some have already stated, i share their opinion; get a hunting rifle first, in a common caliber, in a long run it will be cheapest route

if you really need (i applaud you�&#56399 then here is my opinion on least expensive to most;
SMLE, and if you want to scope go with Nr4, you can get uncles Mike smithless scope mount for cheap, had one and it worked well for me (not great but good enough), plus appreture sights are easier to shot, you can get a sporterised for rally cheap (Nr1Mk3 for ~$150) and if you want to reload ammo won’t be an issue, it does become issue if you buy factory, another thing to consider is a bug of desporterising, it does get pricy if you want it, otherwise nonsporterised versions can be had for $500 and up (and usually desporterised are the cheap end of the spectrum, originals will go gor $800 and up )

Mosin Nagant,great choice, you can have mil specs for $200 and up, if you want scope and looking for PU, you will need to consider spending around $800, cheap surplus ammo, cool as hell, and if you have an eastern european heritage you should have one
other wise it’s just a solid piese of soviet steel made for peasants to fight revolutionary wars

Pattern 1914 or Model 1918, one in .303Br other in 30/06, sporter for 200 and up, usually already with scope mounts, Model 18 plenty handy with its common caliber, i love the dog leg bolt handle on those, but non sporter s are in acces of $400-500 and up

Mausers, $400 and up, various calibers but most in 7.92x57 plenty of knock down power, they are ###y, especially in 7x57 caliber (to me) or the Israeli ones

I believe there is a mil surplus rifle that will appeal to everyone out there, you have to find yours, go to a gun range, speak with owners, ask to handle some and decide which way to go, and have fun, it’s hard to shake the bug of collecting milsurp rifles, i think i did it, but maybe not, got this Pattern 1914 that i’m working on right now and depending how it shots i fear my bug may return, hard

 

[05RAV]

finally - i am not extremely concerned with pricing of ammunition since i will be reloading.

If you are committed to reloading don't bother with milsurp. Buy a decent modern rifle in, say, .308 and you can mount a scope on it if you have more money. The logic of shooting milsurp like the Mosin or SKS is just for still relatively cheap surplus ammo. Otherwise for collecting but that's a different story.

 

[MoreMilsurpMoreFun]

SKS or Enfield imho

 

[iain.quayle]

You seem to say that you want a full wood milsurp, and want to mount a scope on it. Please dont unless it is a sporter already or you get a clamp on mount, enough receivers have already been drilled. An option is if you really want a scoped full wood milsurp, start looking for a mosin sniper going by on the EE. They are about the same price as a good lee enfield and as long as the bore is good and you feed them well, they should shoot lights out, around two moa was their acceptable accuracy. The recent import ones do unfortunately come with a nasty import mark but they are still fun and look pretty cool.

still should get an sks though

other you should look at is a p14, absolutely awesome sights, generally really good bores from refurb, accurate in nature and can be had for less than 600 often.

 

[0357]

Have you considered a CG63 or M69 target rifle? Unless you are looking for an ultimate dirt cheap blaster I think you'll be happier with a $400 to $500 European target rifle. https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/schultz-larsen-m69-target-rifle-65x55-25

The M69 is a Mauser 98 action and the CG63 is a Mauser 96 action. I prefer the 98 but either will do.

They also have sporterized M96 6.5x55 rifles for under $300 if you plan to scope it.

The 6.5x55 ammo will set you back more than 7.62x54r or 308 but it's really not too bad and even Canadian Tire usually has some. Tradeex has Prvi ammo for $29 per 20.

But if you want an accurate centerfire that you can shoot for as cheap as possible you might want to look into a modern bolt action in 223. Other than surplus 7.62x39 it's the cheapest ammo around and, unlike x39, is usually quite accurate. Last time I bought bulk x39 it was 30¢ a round and 223/5.56 is around 50¢ for the brass cased stuff. Bottom line is you will eventually spend more in ammo than the gun so the extra few hundred $ on the gun to have good, cheap ammo available is a good trade.

My take on Enfields is that they are not accurate enough for a bolt action. I think Mosins are too big and clunky but they do have their own charm. And history, for sure. My brother loves his Finnish M39 Mosin but those are big money. My SKS was fun but I don't shoot it much any more since I got an AR15. AR15 is way more accurate. I did kill a deer with the SKS so it is an option if you want hunting ability out of your first gun.

Hopefully my essay helps you decide!

Do yourself a favor and look into this fellas suggestions

 

[safehunter]

Ffs just go buy an sks already. Its the perfect first gun (ok centerfire barring 22 for the little ones or 12 gauge for the versatility) unless:
A). You are hunting over 200 yards
B) you are shooting moose, elk, or grizzly ( shot placement trumps calibre so sks would do the job np)
C). Your range bans surplus ammo

Mosin too long. 303 too expensive ( even reloads f\~#\| .312 grr). Americans wish they can buy an sks for as cheap as we can. Reloads cant beat surplus x39 on $$.

7.62 x 39 is the ballistic twin of the 30-30. Everything in NA has fallen to the 30-30.

Your budget gets you an sks an a crate of ammo. Nothing comes close. Hornady sells 50 rounds sst in x39 for a reasonable price.

And if im wrong and u dont like it then u can turn around and sell it without loosing your shirt.

#1 thing new shooters need is trigger time. Sks maxes trigger time per dollar.

After the sks look into the rest. M305 also something our american friends lust after.

If it has to be scoped and milsurp then find one with the damage done or the ghost of smellie will curse u and you rifles.

edit: mapologiesmformthe cursing and badmgrammer

 

[Riflechair]

The No4Mk1 or No1Mk3* lee enfield is a very good place for you to start your shooting experience. Don't think of them as milsurps but as a working rifle capable of a fast rate of fire, very good accuracy and a calibre capable of falling north american game and yet still available at any typical sporting store.

 

[pcvando]

I’m a bit late but here is my take on milsurps...

There are some fantastic YouTube channels to check out, including Forgotten Weapons, Hickock45, Riflechairs above are always entertaining and informative, and just YouTube milsurp rifles of various kinds and watch the videos.

You’ll learn a lot and will develop certain interests. What’s your heritage? Most people are able to buy a rifle from their ancestral roots which is always interesting.

I’d personally recommend a bolt action rifle for starters. You can’t go wrong with a Soviet refurbished 91/30. This will be a good learning tool for take down and cleaning etc, and won’t break the bank. Surplus ammunition is still out there, albeit at this point selections are limited.

An SKS would be a great first semi auto, but if you going to get a Mosin, why not get a semi auto rifle in the same caliber?

Check out a Soviet refurbished SVT-40. They are still reasonably priced compared to what I predict they will reach in a few years. They are basically the Soviet M1 Garand if you want to think of it that way. The Soviets wanted a battle rifle that could faze out the Mosin however that was cost and resource prohibitive, so they opted to change their tactics a little and issue a number of SVT-40’s and sub machine guns to soldiers in squads to compliment the Mosin 91/30.

They are slightly more complex than an SKS but still super simple.

If Soviet isn’t your cup of tea, I’d suggest maybe one of the following on this list:
- Swiss K31
- Swedish M96
- Carcano M41
- Steyr M95 in 8x56r
- Lee Enfield
- Mauser K98
- MAS 36
- Arisaka Type 38 or Type 99

Basically get what your heart desires haha because at the end of the day, you’ll end up owning them all eventually

Hope this helps a bit

 

[DRE67]

The SKS is cheap. Buy 1. Better yet buy 2. And get a couple crates of ammo.

 

[shredder]

OP, given your budget, a typical Lee-Enfield that hasn't been beaten to snot is likely out of your price range of $500 (never skimp on groceries ).

It's also unlikely you'll find decent a Mauser or K31 for under $500 as well.

That leaves you with the Mosin-Nagant and the SKS for your surplus choices. Both are reliable, both shoot cheap ammo, both can be upgraded just about as far as one might want. A Mosin-Nagant with a cut-down (to about 22 to 24 inches) barrel, an aftermarket stock, turned-down bolt handle, and scope can make a good hunting rifle and a decent shooter. The SKS has pretty much the same options (except for cutting the barrel - it's only 20 inches long so it doesn't really need to be cut).

That being said, doing the above will definitely exceed your $500 budget. Were I you, I'd consider something like the Savage Axis II rifle packages in .308 Winchester. They're a decent shooter, come with a scope, surplus (read: cheap) ammo is available, there are umpteen options for reloading .308, you can find commercial ammo just about anywhere in AB, and they're relatively inexpensive (other makers besides Savage have entry-level rifles as well).

I have a Savage Axis in .308 (the first generation without the Accu-Trigger) for hunting. It was $350 when I got several years ago, and it IS accurate - which is why I'm recommending something similar for you.

 

[Ganderite]

A SKS is a good shooter, as is, unmolested. (Although I take the bayonet off my shooters).

If you want a hunting rifle, buy a sporterized #4 Lee Enfield. The peep sight is perfect, as is. Or get a small scope installed on it.

 

[Suther]

Ffs just go buy an sks already. Its the perfect first gun (ok centerfire barring 22 for the little ones or 12 guage for the versitility) unless:
A). You are hunting over 200 yards
B) you are shooting moose, elk, or grizzly ( shot placement trumps caliber so sks would do the job np)
C). Your range bans surplus ammo

Mosin too long. 303 too expensive ( even reloads f\~#\| .312 grr). Americans wish they can buy an sks for as cheap as we can. Reloads cant beat surplus x39 on $$.

7.62 x 39 is the ballistic twin of the 30-30. Everything in NA has fallen to the 30-30.

Your budget gets you an sks an a crate of ammo. Nothing comes close. Hornady sells 50 rounds sst in x39 for a reasonable price.

And if im wrong and u dont like it then u can turn around and sell it without loosing your shirt.

#1 thing new shooters need is trigger time. Sks maxes trigger time per dollar.

After the sks look into the rest. M305 also something our american friends lust after.

And ffs dont be drilling some full wood longbranch. If it has to be scoped and milsurp then find one with the damage done or the ghost of smellie will curse u and you rifles.

edit: mapologiesmformthe cursing and badmgrammer

If 7.62x39 is the ballistic twin of 30-30, then 300win mag is the ballistic twin to 30-06. While 7.62x39 and 30-30 both shoot bullets around 2400fps, the 30-30 does it with a bullet that's 20% heavier (150gr vs 123gr).

Also, the sks is a terrible first hunting rifle. Mediocre accuracy, terrible sights, marginal caliber with limited hunting ammo availability, and the same chin weld issue as others have if you put a scope on it.

Now, I'm not saying you can't hunt with an sks, many do, it's just far from ideal even when compared to an Enfield or Mosin, nevermind a modern hunting rifle like an axis, 783, or compass.

While the sks does allow for trigger time, it is not a good platform for learning the fundamentals of marksmanship. For that, you can't beat a 22lr really(the lack of recoil allows one to focus on the important aspects), but any decently accurate bolt action with a scope is better than an sks.

You can buy 100 bullets for reloading an Enfield for as cheap as $38. Hardly expensive, 50 partitions for my 270win are $65!

 

[Butcherbill]

and the same chin weld issue as others have if you put a scope on it.

Not quite true, It depends on the scope and ring set up. Anything under a 40mm scope with low or med rings on something like a magwedge rail gives you a nice cheek weld on an sks, I’ve had a few different scopes on one of mine. The sks is a 100-200 yrd shooter at best when hunting and a 2-7x32mm is plenty of scope to shoot deer out to 200y. Is it better than a bolt action milsurp, usually not. The 3-9x40 I have on one currently with high rings gives me something in between a chin and a cheek weld. Plenty comfortable and stable.

 

[mauser71]

Any mauser in 30/06 or 308 .....

Mosquefal , israeli mauser....

Easy to fine ammo and easy to upgrade if you reload tour ammo to fins best recipe