ideal shotgun round for grouse?
- Thread starter ruger22
- Start date
madtrapper143
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Steep Rock Lake NWO
16 gauge loaded with field load sixes.....
regards, Darryl
regards, Darryl
No such thing as the ideal gauge, it depends on conditions. Full foliage, bare branches, wind, range, species (ruffed, sharptail, spruce) etc. all affect the choice of gauge and load.
The closest thing to an all around grouse gauge is the 16, with everything available from soft shooting 7/8 oz. to heavy 1 1/8th oz. loads. The 16 generally gives better patterns than a 20 gauge while retaining lighter weight than a 12 (in a properly built gun).
Nothing is carved in stone, however. I would be mortified if I had to go the whole season with just one gauge, even more so if I only had one load.
Sharptail
The closest thing to an all around grouse gauge is the 16, with everything available from soft shooting 7/8 oz. to heavy 1 1/8th oz. loads. The 16 generally gives better patterns than a 20 gauge while retaining lighter weight than a 12 (in a properly built gun).
Nothing is carved in stone, however. I would be mortified if I had to go the whole season with just one gauge, even more so if I only had one load.
Sharptail
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Exactly what sharptail said!
Thinking about this some more, the question is wrong. As pointed out, there are several appropriate choices of gauge for grouse. The real question is, what kind of gun is best for grouse?
Shooting grouse, especially ruffed grouse, is a game of speed. The birds themselves and the terrain they live in dictate that shooting techniques like sustained lead or pull ahead are seldom successful. The birds are too fast and disappear into the bush too quickly. Instinctive shooting is often all that can be utilized, but even other techniques will have to put a premium on quickness.
In order for a shotgun to be a successful instinctive shooter, it must possess several qualities. First and foremost is gun fit, instinctive shooting with an ill fitting gun is frustrating. After that, things get more interesting.
There is a theory, which I hold to be true, that states it is easier to point a shotgun when the barrels are set low in the hand. The higher the barrels are above your hand, the less instinctive they are to point. SxS's and some U/O's therefore have a natural advantage over most pumps and autos which place the barrels well above the hand.
Another important quality is handling - how easy is it to get the gun pointing where you want? Conventional wisdom on this topic suggests that half or more of the total mass of the gun be located between the shooter's hands. The more centrally located the majority of the mass is, the easier it becomes to handle the gun - up to the point where things get whippy. A break action gun, or a falling block action will naturally concentrate more of the mass between the hands than a pump or auto with their longer frames and more spread out operating bits.
Another factor is not the distribution of mass, but the total mass. I don't care how strong you are, you can move a six lb. gun from port arms to shoulder faster than you can move an 8 lb. gun. The lighter the better for grouse, up to the point where your gun handling skills cannot adequately control the gun. Very lightweight guns take discipline to shoot.
The ideal grouse gun, therefore, has reasonably low mass, has that mass compactly centered between the hands, keeps the barrels as low in the hands as possible and fits the shooter well. The gauge does not matter, except that the load be enough for the game and the pattern be dense and even enough at the distances required.
Factors such as barrel length, number of triggers, pistol vs. straight grip, rib type etc. also come in to play, but everyone has their own theories on those things. The mass / balance / handling equations are all pure physics and physiology.
These things have been studied for a long, long time and are continually refined. They result in what is commonly called a game gun - a gun built specifically for the uplands. Really great ones are rare and expensive, but merely good ones can be had by anyone, so long as you know what you are looking for.
Just my $0.02
Sharptail
Shooting grouse, especially ruffed grouse, is a game of speed. The birds themselves and the terrain they live in dictate that shooting techniques like sustained lead or pull ahead are seldom successful. The birds are too fast and disappear into the bush too quickly. Instinctive shooting is often all that can be utilized, but even other techniques will have to put a premium on quickness.
In order for a shotgun to be a successful instinctive shooter, it must possess several qualities. First and foremost is gun fit, instinctive shooting with an ill fitting gun is frustrating. After that, things get more interesting.
There is a theory, which I hold to be true, that states it is easier to point a shotgun when the barrels are set low in the hand. The higher the barrels are above your hand, the less instinctive they are to point. SxS's and some U/O's therefore have a natural advantage over most pumps and autos which place the barrels well above the hand.
Another important quality is handling - how easy is it to get the gun pointing where you want? Conventional wisdom on this topic suggests that half or more of the total mass of the gun be located between the shooter's hands. The more centrally located the majority of the mass is, the easier it becomes to handle the gun - up to the point where things get whippy. A break action gun, or a falling block action will naturally concentrate more of the mass between the hands than a pump or auto with their longer frames and more spread out operating bits.
Another factor is not the distribution of mass, but the total mass. I don't care how strong you are, you can move a six lb. gun from port arms to shoulder faster than you can move an 8 lb. gun. The lighter the better for grouse, up to the point where your gun handling skills cannot adequately control the gun. Very lightweight guns take discipline to shoot.
The ideal grouse gun, therefore, has reasonably low mass, has that mass compactly centered between the hands, keeps the barrels as low in the hands as possible and fits the shooter well. The gauge does not matter, except that the load be enough for the game and the pattern be dense and even enough at the distances required.
Factors such as barrel length, number of triggers, pistol vs. straight grip, rib type etc. also come in to play, but everyone has their own theories on those things. The mass / balance / handling equations are all pure physics and physiology.
These things have been studied for a long, long time and are continually refined. They result in what is commonly called a game gun - a gun built specifically for the uplands. Really great ones are rare and expensive, but merely good ones can be had by anyone, so long as you know what you are looking for.
Just my $0.02
Sharptail
BrotherRockeye
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rural Saskatchewan
Sharptail said a mouthful,hard not to agree!
Me,I like my 16ga single...#6's do nicely...
Me,I like my 16ga single...#6's do nicely...
Ahsan Ahmed
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
X2.
I, er,
have started to carry as a back-up a 12ga SPR220 with 20in bbls.The more I venture into grouse terrain, Ontario bush perspective, a conviction is slowly forming in my mind that something preferably like an AYA XXV (with 25 inch bbls) in 12 rather than a 20ga (as I found that to be a better balanced shotgun) or one of those previous model Browning Citori Upland Special 20ga with 24in bbls may be all one would need here - IMHO, will highly facilitate poke/shoot scenario in both conditions i.e. before/after the leaves have shed.
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well what i use for them chickens is a .410 guage and shells are cheap.......
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Forest grouse, the ruffed, blue and spruce varieties, have a fan base of hunters who have a multiple personality disorder. That's one reason why so few people agree on what's "best"! Very similar to trout, which can be taken by means of casting an upstream dry fly that matches the hatch, or by a cheese ball in a treble hook sitting on the bottom, grouse can also can be collected in various ways.
The style of the hunt and the methods used depend on your motivation.
When hungry and carrying a .22 rifle, I have been known to collect a grouse with a head shot as it sat on the ground.
But I much prefer to take one on the wing, flushed after it was properly worked by a well trained pointing dog, and with a classic double gun in my hands.
Sharptial gave a very eloquent summary of the gun and ammo requirements for properly shooting the latter grouse. For the former, any gun will do, even the short barreled and otherwise pretty-useless-for-hunting "tactical shotties" so popular with many gunnutz. It's really a matter of personal style, and to each his own.
The style of the hunt and the methods used depend on your motivation.
When hungry and carrying a .22 rifle, I have been known to collect a grouse with a head shot as it sat on the ground.
But I much prefer to take one on the wing, flushed after it was properly worked by a well trained pointing dog, and with a classic double gun in my hands.
Sharptial gave a very eloquent summary of the gun and ammo requirements for properly shooting the latter grouse. For the former, any gun will do, even the short barreled and otherwise pretty-useless-for-hunting "tactical shotties" so popular with many gunnutz. It's really a matter of personal style, and to each his own.
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MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
That's a bit odd. Usually the front trigger shoots the more open choke.
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Sharptail ....
Well thought out response - right on the money !
Don'tcha just love those "10 second questions" that take a lifetime of experiance to answer ?
Well thought out response - right on the money !
Don'tcha just love those "10 second questions" that take a lifetime of experiance to answer ?
Sharp tail and Longwalker have it about covered on this topic.
I figured I would add another $.02 worth to the discussion. I have hunted ruffed grouse for a lot of years. and have killed them with everything from .22 to 12 ga. My most pleasurable hunting is with my Lab busting the birds out of the heavy cover we have around here and wing shooting with a 20ga Browning SxS. I had the chokes opened from M/F to Skeet and Skeet.
My advice:
1.Get yourself a shotgun that fits, has the action type you are most comfortable with or prefer.
2. Get to a trap/Skeet/Sporting Clays range as much as possible. Shoot from the Low gun position with Skeet
3. Keep a box of clays and a hand thrower handy and practice mounting your gun and busting the birds.
4. choose the right load for the hunting you want to do.
Regardless of the guage or action type you choose, pick a gun that will work for the conditions you plan to hunt in. For example, my 20 ga works very well for Ruffs in heavy cover at ranges 30 yards and under . It didnt work worth S@#T for sharptails in open grainfields in Alberta. There I quickly got smart and carried a old Model 50 Autoloader with Full choke and a 3 dram 1 1/8 oz. trap load of #7 1/2 .
All of my shotguns are 25+ years old and were purchased before the advent of factory screw-in chokes. If you are looking for a new gun you will be able to get a whole lot of versatility with the screw in choke systems available today and will likely be able to find a shotgun that can do alot more than knock grouse out of the air. ie. Trap, skeet, waterfowling. Some might serve well for deer hunting as well with interchangeable rifled slug barrels, but that is a different topic.
Good luck in your deliberations. Choose well and shoot lots.
I figured I would add another $.02 worth to the discussion. I have hunted ruffed grouse for a lot of years. and have killed them with everything from .22 to 12 ga. My most pleasurable hunting is with my Lab busting the birds out of the heavy cover we have around here and wing shooting with a 20ga Browning SxS. I had the chokes opened from M/F to Skeet and Skeet.
My advice:
1.Get yourself a shotgun that fits, has the action type you are most comfortable with or prefer.
2. Get to a trap/Skeet/Sporting Clays range as much as possible. Shoot from the Low gun position with Skeet
3. Keep a box of clays and a hand thrower handy and practice mounting your gun and busting the birds.
4. choose the right load for the hunting you want to do.
Regardless of the guage or action type you choose, pick a gun that will work for the conditions you plan to hunt in. For example, my 20 ga works very well for Ruffs in heavy cover at ranges 30 yards and under . It didnt work worth S@#T for sharptails in open grainfields in Alberta. There I quickly got smart and carried a old Model 50 Autoloader with Full choke and a 3 dram 1 1/8 oz. trap load of #7 1/2 .
All of my shotguns are 25+ years old and were purchased before the advent of factory screw-in chokes. If you are looking for a new gun you will be able to get a whole lot of versatility with the screw in choke systems available today and will likely be able to find a shotgun that can do alot more than knock grouse out of the air. ie. Trap, skeet, waterfowling. Some might serve well for deer hunting as well with interchangeable rifled slug barrels, but that is a different topic.
Good luck in your deliberations. Choose well and shoot lots.
Sharp tail and Longwalker have it about covered on this topic.
I figured I would add another $.02 worth to the discussion. I have hunted ruffed grouse for a lot of years. and have killed them with everything from .22 to 12 ga. My most pleasurable hunting is with my Lab busting the birds out of the heavy cover we have around here and wing shooting with a 20ga Browning SxS. I had the chokes opened from M/F to Skeet and Skeet.
My advice:
1.Get yourself a shotgun that fits, has the action type you are most comfortable with or prefer.
2. Get to a trap/Skeet/Sporting Clays range as much as possible. Shoot from the Low gun position with Skeet
3. Keep a box of clays and a hand thrower handy and practice mounting your gun and busting the birds.
4. choose the right load for the hunting you want to do.
Regardless of the guage or action type you choose, pick a gun that will work for the conditions you plan to hunt in. For example, my 20 ga works very well for Ruffs in heavy cover at ranges 30 yards and under . It didnt work worth S@#T for sharptails in open grainfields in Alberta. There I quickly got smart and carried a old Model 50 Autoloader with Full choke and a 3 dram 1 1/8 oz. trap load of #7 1/2 .
All of my shotguns are 25+ years old and were purchased before the advent of factory screw-in chokes. If you are looking for a new gun you will be able to get a whole lot of versatility with the screw in choke systems available today and will likely be able to find a shotgun that can do alot more than knock grouse out of the air. ie. Trap, skeet, waterfowling. Some might serve well for deer hunting as well with interchangeable rifled slug barrels, but that is a different topic.
Good luck in your deliberations. Choose well and shoot lots.
I figured I would add another $.02 worth to the discussion. I have hunted ruffed grouse for a lot of years. and have killed them with everything from .22 to 12 ga. My most pleasurable hunting is with my Lab busting the birds out of the heavy cover we have around here and wing shooting with a 20ga Browning SxS. I had the chokes opened from M/F to Skeet and Skeet.
My advice:
1.Get yourself a shotgun that fits, has the action type you are most comfortable with or prefer.
2. Get to a trap/Skeet/Sporting Clays range as much as possible. Shoot from the Low gun position with Skeet
3. Keep a box of clays and a hand thrower handy and practice mounting your gun and busting the birds.
4. choose the right load for the hunting you want to do.
Regardless of the guage or action type you choose, pick a gun that will work for the conditions you plan to hunt in. For example, my 20 ga works very well for Ruffs in heavy cover at ranges 30 yards and under . It didnt work worth S@#T for sharptails in open grainfields in Alberta. There I quickly got smart and carried a old Model 50 Autoloader with Full choke and a 3 dram 1 1/8 oz. trap load of #7 1/2 .
All of my shotguns are 25+ years old and were purchased before the advent of factory screw-in chokes. If you are looking for a new gun you will be able to get a whole lot of versatility with the screw in choke systems available today and will likely be able to find a shotgun that can do alot more than knock grouse out of the air. ie. Trap, skeet, waterfowling. Some might serve well for deer hunting as well with interchangeable rifled slug barrels, but that is a different topic.
Good luck in your deliberations. Choose well and shoot lots.
