identification help please revolver..
- Thread starter twosteam
- Start date
Yes, that's The Beast. It is a Good Thing that Jan knows some of this modern stuff. To me, half of it is Magick, but she knows the Photobucket Spell, the Digital Camera Spell..... and the Microwave Spell, which makes cooking a lot easier for someone who thinks that you still have to have a fire-trench down the middle of your Hall and run around wearing horny helmets and screaming at people in Old Icelandic (which I don't know, anyway).
But The Beast is my latest treasure, a refugee from the Great Wolverine Surplus Sale of rare and recent conundra (plural of "conundrum"), which this thing assuredly must be. A whole bundle of them, all at the same time.
The Beast is said (from previous Registrations) to be an ARIZMENDI revolver of Spanish (Eibar) make, but it is in pretty nasty condition, as you can see. It LOOKS LIKE it is more than halfway to being a Russian Nagant, but lacks entirely the gas-seal feature of a proper Nagant Gas-seal Revolver. In some ways it looks closer to the (related) French Lebel but the locking mechanism is different: note the cylinder has no forward stops, nor is there a frame-cut to accommodate such. It is actually closest to the classic late-1880s Nagant revolvers before the gas-sealing feature was developed. It was believed to be in calibre 8mm Lebel Revolver, but (very) close examination (with a loupe) discovered wording to the LEFT side of the barrel stating that it is in calibre 7.62mm Nagant..... in FRENCH. But Arizmendi was Spanish (actually Basque).... and French is about the last language I expected. Examination of the Cylinder (bored for 7 rounds) shows that the thing is actually reamed for the 7.62mm Nagant round, so that is one thing settled. I will have that corrected on the Registration ASAP.
But there are two other problems.
Problem Number 1: when was this thing made? The Nagant Gas-seal revolver came out with its own ammunition likely about 1894; Russia adopted it in 1895 and first deliveries of guns and ammunition were from Belgium. But the Spanish (especially the Basques) would copy ANYTHING that might bring in a Real.... or a Peseta.... or a Franc... or a Ruble, for that matter. Colt and S&W collectors likely already know far too much about this! HOW early did the Basques begin copying the chambering of the Russian round? There were Arizmendis working, building guns, in the late 1870s..... and right through the Great War. I would like to be able to assign a proper date to The Beast. At the present time, all I know for certain is the Serial Number: 17. Can anyone help?
Question Number 2 is even more of a puzzle. The RCMP say that this is a Prohib, basing the classification on date and barrel length. The "barrel" portion of the gun measures 102mm except for one tiny little fact: this gun has no barrel! The gun is 8-3/4 inches in length and the BARREL AND FRAME ARE A SINGLE FORGING. Being that all of this is a SINGLE PIECE, does that not make the Barrel Length to be 8-3/4 inches?
And before you ask, yes, there IS a maker's marking on the thing, right where Colt used to put theirs. It is a circle surmounted by the word "TRADE" and with the word "MARK" below, both words curved to follow the circle. What is INSIDE the circle, though, is stamped but lightly and is extremely difficult to read, even with a loupe. The marking itself COULD be a capital letter "A", rounded and very thick. On the other hand, it could be 2 "A"s side-by-side; Jan is certain it is an "H".
And yes, I'm going to shoot the critter. There is even something resembling rifling inside the barrel portion of the gun.... and likely there will be more after she has had a decent scrub.
ANYTHING that ANYONE can let me know WILL be appreciated. It's not about the money (I have a whole $95 invested here, you know)... it's about an old war relic (from the appearance) which has come to a new home and wants to tell her story.
Thank you.
.
But The Beast is my latest treasure, a refugee from the Great Wolverine Surplus Sale of rare and recent conundra (plural of "conundrum"), which this thing assuredly must be. A whole bundle of them, all at the same time.
The Beast is said (from previous Registrations) to be an ARIZMENDI revolver of Spanish (Eibar) make, but it is in pretty nasty condition, as you can see. It LOOKS LIKE it is more than halfway to being a Russian Nagant, but lacks entirely the gas-seal feature of a proper Nagant Gas-seal Revolver. In some ways it looks closer to the (related) French Lebel but the locking mechanism is different: note the cylinder has no forward stops, nor is there a frame-cut to accommodate such. It is actually closest to the classic late-1880s Nagant revolvers before the gas-sealing feature was developed. It was believed to be in calibre 8mm Lebel Revolver, but (very) close examination (with a loupe) discovered wording to the LEFT side of the barrel stating that it is in calibre 7.62mm Nagant..... in FRENCH. But Arizmendi was Spanish (actually Basque).... and French is about the last language I expected. Examination of the Cylinder (bored for 7 rounds) shows that the thing is actually reamed for the 7.62mm Nagant round, so that is one thing settled. I will have that corrected on the Registration ASAP.
But there are two other problems.
Problem Number 1: when was this thing made? The Nagant Gas-seal revolver came out with its own ammunition likely about 1894; Russia adopted it in 1895 and first deliveries of guns and ammunition were from Belgium. But the Spanish (especially the Basques) would copy ANYTHING that might bring in a Real.... or a Peseta.... or a Franc... or a Ruble, for that matter. Colt and S&W collectors likely already know far too much about this! HOW early did the Basques begin copying the chambering of the Russian round? There were Arizmendis working, building guns, in the late 1870s..... and right through the Great War. I would like to be able to assign a proper date to The Beast. At the present time, all I know for certain is the Serial Number: 17. Can anyone help?
Question Number 2 is even more of a puzzle. The RCMP say that this is a Prohib, basing the classification on date and barrel length. The "barrel" portion of the gun measures 102mm except for one tiny little fact: this gun has no barrel! The gun is 8-3/4 inches in length and the BARREL AND FRAME ARE A SINGLE FORGING. Being that all of this is a SINGLE PIECE, does that not make the Barrel Length to be 8-3/4 inches?
And before you ask, yes, there IS a maker's marking on the thing, right where Colt used to put theirs. It is a circle surmounted by the word "TRADE" and with the word "MARK" below, both words curved to follow the circle. What is INSIDE the circle, though, is stamped but lightly and is extremely difficult to read, even with a loupe. The marking itself COULD be a capital letter "A", rounded and very thick. On the other hand, it could be 2 "A"s side-by-side; Jan is certain it is an "H".
And yes, I'm going to shoot the critter. There is even something resembling rifling inside the barrel portion of the gun.... and likely there will be more after she has had a decent scrub.
ANYTHING that ANYONE can let me know WILL be appreciated. It's not about the money (I have a whole $95 invested here, you know)... it's about an old war relic (from the appearance) which has come to a new home and wants to tell her story.
Thank you.
.
Hi smellie you have a look in "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Handguns : Pistols and Revolvers of the World, 1870 to the Present", by Z.B. Zhuk, 1995 683.43Zhu.
Try a web site called little gun: http://www.littlegun.be/
Try a web site called little gun: http://www.littlegun.be/
Cottage Hill Bill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Pensacola, FL USA
Smellie,
Is there a chance that it's chambered in 8mm Lebel (pistol)? I know the Spanish made a great variety of pistols aimed at the WWI French officer market.
Is there a chance that it's chambered in 8mm Lebel (pistol)? I know the Spanish made a great variety of pistols aimed at the WWI French officer market.
@ Cottage Hill Bill: that's half the reason I bought the thing, because I already have a small St. Etienne "Le Municipal" in 8 Lebel that I have to make up ammo for. It was Settler's Effects and there was no regulation when it came in; I ended up with it many years ago. It took very close examination of the "barrel" of this one, but the thing is definitely marked as 7.62 Nagant, which is a problem in itself: it is licensed as 8mm!!! It takes .32-20 fired brass easily..... but so does an 8mm!
I'm lost on this one. Just keep looking.
Desporteriser: I sympathise, I really do! Just so VERY many interesting ones..... You know where I am. Drop by in your travels and you can fondle her to your heart's content! Me, I'll just keep looking...
@Sail 32: thanks for the directions. I'll give them a try.
Keep looking.....
"Gotta be a mango tree here somewhere...." (Chef, in "Apocalypse Now")
.
I'm lost on this one. Just keep looking.
Desporteriser: I sympathise, I really do! Just so VERY many interesting ones..... You know where I am. Drop by in your travels and you can fondle her to your heart's content! Me, I'll just keep looking...
@Sail 32: thanks for the directions. I'll give them a try.
Keep looking.....
"Gotta be a mango tree here somewhere...." (Chef, in "Apocalypse Now")
.
