IDPA/CDPA Whinning and #####ing

raks said:
I'd like to clear up some misconceptions - it's great that the Gunnutz will shoot from the hip from time to time, but come on guys, get the facts straight.

CSSA Instructors do not get paid for teaching.

The CDP course is a certificate course that is recognized by CFO's coast to coast. This is important for some shooters. Cost for the course depends a lot on range rental and other issues. In Manitoba the training course was around $95 - half of which is CSSA membership. This ensures that all competitors have the best insurance package available to action shooters as well as helping build our national voice. The other cost is for development & training materials - instructors do not get paid!

CDP competitors can still buy their US IDPA membership and compete in the USA just like anyone else.

In Manitoba we have had good success with the CDP course and are not charging a 'membership fee' for the MDPL. If you're a CSSA member with holster training, pay the match fee & have fun at our MDPL matches. The ATHL has a membership fee of $100/year - so who's cheaper???

Isn't the goal just to get people out shooting? Petty squabbles over who's got the designer label jeans just arent getting us anywhere.

Stay safe, have fun, see you in Calgary for the course!

:popCorn:
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Just to clarify - this is true, but any of the matches are not recognised by IDPA nor are any of the other *DPA organisations.

I wish you well and good luck with the course.

Just remember the all important - HAVE FUN!
 
PrairieMedic said:
Ummm.... Dragoon does IDPA. Burke is CDP.
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It hardly matters. I'm "ODPL", and I could easily compete and do just fine in IDPA or CDP.

There are some very minor rules differences that don't make a whit of difference in most circumstances.

It's all good fun, it's safe, it comes down to what is offered in your area and your personal like or dislike of the training/certification/shooting regimes that are available to you.

Because there is no national 'ladder' to climb, it's easy to have multiple organizations all doing basically the same thing. This is a good thing; it means that locals can organize fun matches without the overhead of complying with / interacting with an umbrella group.

If you want to climb a ladder, do IPSC or PPC. And IDPA/CDP/ODPL etc, because the skills are transferable.
 
I went to the CDPA website http://www.cdpa.com/ :confused:


The Canadian Dental Protective Association (CDPA) was founded in 1994 as a federally incorporated not - for-profit corporation created and managed "By Dentists for Dentists", whose purpose is to provide services of the highest quality including risk management and general advice, present educational programs, disseminate information and publications helpful to its members and facilitate legal defence when necessary.​
;)
 
raks said:
The ATHL has a membership fee of $100/year - so who's cheaper???
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Well, the CDP course in Calgary is $150.00 and ATHL (also in Calgary) membership is $100.00. So by what convoluted logic is CDP (in Calgary) cheaper?:onCrack:

Let's compare:

CDP course $150.00 which includes membership in CSSA and certification of a limited value. (spoke to Alberta/NWT CFO this morining and they've never heard of CDP)

ATHL membership is $100.00 which includes membership in IDPA, AND membership in NFA, AND in the Alberta Federation of Shooting Sports (AFSS). Plus the ongoing training is FREE.....:canadaFlag:
 
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So then all that would be required it would appear is to educate the Alberta CFO on the aspects of the CDP program and all would be well.

Excellent to see such co-operation amongst the shooting fraternity!
 
bclinehand said:
Sorry for the Hi jack but the fact that the CSSA is paying the costs of travel for an instructor who profits from training new CSSA members just does not sit right:mad: .......will be cancelling CSSA membership......end of Hi jack.


:)
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Psst..............if you read the post you will find that the COSTS are paid by the people taking the course which is why it has what some determine to be a higher price tag.

CDP is organized by CSSA however like it or not.
 
Dragoon said:
Let's compare:

CDP course $150.00 which may include membership in CSSA and certification of a limited value. (spoke to Alberta/NWT CFO this morining and they've never heard of CDP)

ATHL membership is $100.00 which includes membership in IDPA, AND membership in NFA, AND in the Alberta Federation of Shooting Sports (AFSS). Plus the ongoing training is FREE.....:canadaFlag:
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As I noted, I was just comparing my experience here in Manitoba:

Where you get - CDP Certificate course & CSSA membership (best insurance + most active voice).

If you leave out match fees, after 3 years ATHL = $300, MDPL = $185... But you Albertans have more to spend anyhow!! :D Not that I got into shooting to save money... Anyone hoping for that is daydreaming.

Not sure why the 'REAL IDPA' guys always have to piss and moan online to prove that they're 'better'...
 
Dragoon said:
....and Burke charges $150.00 for CDP training (which doesn't include membership, etc)....

.....and in IDPA there is no charge for training.....
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And you charge $200 for your Black Badge and we charge $175... Focusing on what it costs or doesn't cost is aboslutley no measure of the intrinsic VALUE of the training.

What the guys failed to post, is that the cost for TSE members is only $100 vs the $150 for non-members. As most of the guys attending will most likely be members, I think this is extremely good value for 1 1/2 days of TRAINING.

Personaly I applaude the guys for taking the initiative to organize the event.

Maybe if we all took a deep breath and quit trying to on-up each other, we'd have less problems.

JR
 
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Stormbringer

CDP is not recognized coast to coast by CFO's as has been stated here, not in B.C. or in Alberta, N.W.T. and at that point there is only one coast left if my geography is right.

Not sure what there is for a CFO to recognize as the CDP course does not replace the PAL course so where it might fit into a CFO's life is a bit obscure. I am certain somebody in Ontario will enlighten us out here in due course.

All shooting diciplines are great for our sport and certainly are to be encouraged. What seems to be at the heart of all of this is CDP's claim that somehow they were working hand in hand with IDPA HQ which in fact they weren't. They don't have permission from IDPA to use the IDPA rule book or use IDPA in their literature.

IDPA Canada is established in Canada, has it's own website and discussion forum. There are/will be Safety Officers in each province IDPA is represented in, ready and willing to give of their time to instruct indiduals so they can be certified as Safety Officers, a certification that is recognized across the IDPA world. Travel Costs are the only significant costs involved. IDPA clubs offer holster instruction free for novice shooters.

CDP is a knock-off of IDPA and will or will not survive on it's merits. If it does good on CDP the more handgun shooting becomes mainstream the less likely governments will be quick to jump on the "ban" bandwagon.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
CDP is not recognized coast to coast by CFO's as has been stated here,

Bob
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AFAIK no CFO bothers to "recognize" any disipline in particular...
Ranges are approved for certain activities.
A range approved for bullseye type shooting with a static firing line will be approved as such... A range where "action" type shooting will take place without a fixed firing line will also be approved as such... If deemed properly set up and safe for the type of shooting...
They don't care if your shooting IDPA, IPSC, CDP or whatever....
As well... nowhere is it written that the CFO requires anyone to have holster training... IPSC (in Canada anyway) require it to play their game and gun clubs may make it a requiremnet as it is their right to do so.
If I'm mistaken.. someone point me to where it says 'Holster certification" is a requiremnet set out by CFO's....
 
Hey I do not know or care about the politics of DPA.

I am not even a member of a "DPA" although I have shot 4 or so "DPA" matches (not CDPA).

I do not know who at CDPA has or has not been talking to who at IDPA(USA) nore do I frankly care..

Now............to the facts of your post..

C
CDP is not recognized coast to coast by CFO's as has been stated here, not in B.C. or in Alberta, N.W.T. and at that point there is only one coast left if my geography is right.
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So 2 provinces and one territory out of three? It would seem very easy as I pointed out to update those who are "in the dark". Mind you I am not sure if there is any action shooting in Nuavut other than polar bear dodging.

Not sure what there is for a CFO to recognize as the CDP course does not replace the PAL course so where it might fit into a CFO's life is a bit obscure. I am certain somebody in Ontario will enlighten us out here in due course.
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If you READ above you will see that it was Dragoon who indicated that Alberta's CFO did not know what CDPA was. Frankly as far as I know ranges are certified for "action shooting" which covers all of the DPs as well as IPSC and PPC for that matter. So I guess we are on the same page in terms of how this should effect CFOs. Perhaps you can update Dragoon on this factoid.

All shooting diciplines are great for our sport and certainly are to be encouraged. What seems to be at the heart of all of this is CDP's claim that somehow they were working hand in hand with IDPA HQ which in fact they weren't. They don't have permission from IDPA to use the IDPA rule book or use IDPA in their literature
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The first part of this is great. The second.........well I cannot judge either way as I do not talk to IDPA HQ (LOL Love that name) nore do I have any evidence that they do not have permission to use the IDPA rule book. Mind you. Thus far I have not seen any evidence other than hear-say that the opposite is true either.

IDPA Canada is established in Canada, has it's own website and discussion forum. There are/will be Safety Officers in each province IDPA is represented in, ready and willing to give of their time to instruct indiduals so they can be certified as Safety Officers, a certification that is recognized across the IDPA world. Travel Costs are the only significant costs involved. IDPA clubs offer holster instruction free for novice shooters.
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hmm as far as I know IDPA is brand spanking new in terms of its Ontario funciton. Which as I have mentioned before is why all the *DPAs were formed. Having a website is while nice does not make for a true organization. Hell I have a website!!(ok it sucks big time but what do I know I just use it to store pics)

The best part is where you say that there are/WILL be training officers in each province. Did you miss the part in your openning remarks where you "dissed" CDPA for not being in all provinces?? Hmmmm

From what I have seen it is the travel costs that lead to the "rip off prices" of the course that prompted this split thread. So are they valid when passed on by IDPA but not CDPA then?
As to free courses can you provide the sylibus? As they say free is not always what it is cracked up to be. (note I have not idea of the CDPA one either)

CDP is a knock-off of IDPA and will or will not survive on it's merits. If it does good on CDP the more handgun shooting becomes mainstream the less likely governments will be quick to jump on the "ban" bandwagon.
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Well I can tell you that it will survive quite easier if when a CDP thread is posted the IDPA crew did not jump all over it throwing accusations hither and yon. If however you can provide PROOF then of course CDP threads would be tossed.
As it is what I have seen is simply one gang beating up on another gang over "turf" that turf being the action shooters of Canada. That I find disturbing. Perhaps we should invite the "Crips" to join in?
 
stormbringer

With respect...

If you look it wasn't Dragoon who suggested CDP was recognised from Coast to Coast by CFOs it was RAKS.

For someone who uses simple sarcasm as a means of communication you aren't particularily good at picking up on it. If the CFO's in B.C. (Pacific Ocean) and the CFO for AB/NWT (Artic Ocean) don't recognise CDP that only leaves the Atlantic Coast. By deduction CDP can't be recognised Coast to Coast by CFO's as there are no coasts left. To use a phrase used by you in your PM to me "Get it".

"The second.........well I cannot judge either way as I do not talk to IDPA HQ (LOL Love that name) nore do I have any evidence that they do not have permission to use the IDPA rule book. Mind you. Thus far I have not seen any evidence other than hear-say that the opposite is true either."

They don't and it isn't heresay. Steve Shirley the IDPA coordinator for Canada has posted that here.

"The best part is where you say that there are/WILL be training officers in each province. Did you miss the part in your openning remarks where you "dissed" CDPA for not being in all provinces?? Hmmmm"

YOu better re-read the post again. Not sure where I dissed CDPA for not being in every province. Jeez hate to think the best part is the part that never took place....RAKS made a comment that CDP was recognized Coast to Coast, Dragoon indicated it wasn't as did I. NO reference to CDP not being in every province just that the CFO's "from Coast to Coast", did not recognise the CDP course or CDP. We will chalk that up to the fact you live in Ontario...:D


Take Care

Bob
 
There's no *DPA on the Atlantic Coast, (here) but I'd love to see someone start it up so I could try it...:popCorn:

667; IPSC is very well known to most CFOs; in fact in Nova Scotia - if you're an IPSC member, you get a "much more" widespread ATT than the average gun club member - privlidges of old age, I guess...:D
 
For crying out loud, can't we all just get along. I agree 100% with Stormbringer, any shooting is good shooting! If you do not want to pay the fee for CDP then don't, simple as that. If you want to shoot something else, then do that, what is the problem here? All I can tell you is that I have tought over 100 people the CDP course now and we have atleast 20-30 active members at our club alone, not one single person complained about anything and all are having fun! Is that not the most important thing?
 
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Steve David said:
For crying out loud, can't we all just get along. I agree 100% with Stormbringer, any shooting is good shooting! If you do not want to pay the fee for CDP then don't, simple as that. If you want to shoot something else, then do that, what is the problem here? All I can tell you is that I have tought over 100 people the CDP course now and we have atleast 20-30 active members at our club alone, not one single person complained about anything and all are having fun! Is that not the most important thing?
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Here here....:bangHead:
 
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