IDPA - holster certification question

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Stevo said:
Bizarre. One particular type of pistol? That would pretty much have to go in the AD category.
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When no magazine is present in the magazine well, 1911's, with extended ejectors, in 9x19, .38 Super, and .40 S&W.
 
Any suggestion that they are not capable of teaching the fundamentals of drawing a pistol out of a holster safely is just nonsense. So to is the notion that somehow down the road they would be liable because a shooter days, months or years later manages to shoot himself in the a$$ when he draws his gun and pulls the trigger is equally nonsensical. If anyone can find a case in Canada where an instructor was found liable for a shooter doing so I am all ears.
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So bob, why does the NRA sell "Firearms Instructor Insurance" then...
http://www.locktonaffinity.com/nrains/instructors.htm

and ok, the proof required to charge an instructor after the student has left the property may be unobtainable unless multiple students step up and testify about some act of gross negligence performed while instructing, BUT the new shooter orientation course DOES have live fire... what if the student shoots himself or someone else during the course ? who covers the instructor liability wise there ?

Student says "I was just doing as the instructor taught me, I did nothing wrong" and other students back the student up, by not having proper course design, teaching aids and lesson plans the instructor is free to teach the course anyway he wants to, sure IDPA canada has a basic outline but they do not have a formal course design. 50 instructors can teach the course 50 different ways and all are following the "basic" outline.

Bad Habits can be transfered from instructor to student , proper designed course material will Limit that as will a properly designed course AND proper mentoring and proper follow up on the instructors by requiring an audit of at least one of thier classes per year.
 
Canuck44 said:
The appointment of new SOI's is primarily based upon need followed by receipt of names of qualified candidates.

Any suggestion that they are not capable of teaching the fundamentals of drawing a pistol out of a holster safely is just nonsense.

Bob
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I wasn't suggesting that. Only pointing out that IDPA does not supply further training beyond the SO course and that SOs are appointed.
 
To those who started this asking a simple and honest question before it was hi-jack into the crap storm it is now, netcon, it was nice meeting you tonight, I will see you on the 24th and kingair we will work something out for you, also anyone else who would like to participate in the New Shooter Orientation on the 24th of July, please PM me.
 
TIM_COX said:
So bob, why does the NRA sell "Firearms Instructor Insurance" then...
.
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Because the US has significantly different tort laws then we do in Canada Tim. I would have thought that would be self evident.

I hear from two people regarding the Orientation Course via the internet and only two. One has outlined his opinion to me via email. One of his major concerns is being addressed as we speak. The balance of the Insructors use the course outline and are able to hold day classes, that from reports I get are well received by their students. You seem to be unable to present the information required to students with the outline of topics and that is fine. Don't. Others who are quite capable do, and have done so, well before the course outline as assembled.

Mike I was speaking more towards Tim's post. Our SOI's are appointed. The SO's must attend and pass the SO course as you know. I think you missed a letter. :>)

Take Care

Bob
 
Steve David said:
To those who started this asking a simple and honest question before it was hi-jack into the crap storm it is now, netcon, it was nice meeting you tonight, I will see you on the 24th and kingair we will work something out for you, also anyone else who would like to participate in the New Shooter Orientation on the 24th of July, please PM me.
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Once again Steve David incorporates some sanity! My hero! :p Wish I could have made it yesterday.
 
thank you to all who replied.. i will be attending NSO course this month and think it's great idea in general to get familiar with shooting, reloading and safe handling on the move as i'm pretty sure it has a bit different feel and mind set from how i shoot when just being in static position at the bench. IDPA's NSO class sounds like a good solution and doesn't require for me to become IPSC member and take Black Badge course as i just simply don't have time and money to participate in both sports at this point.
 
netcon said:
thank you to all who replied.. i will be attending NSO course this month and think it's great idea in general to get familiar with shooting, reloading and safe handling on the move as i'm pretty sure it has a bit different feel and mind set from how i shoot when just being in static position at the bench. IDPA's NSO class sounds like a good solution and doesn't require for me to become IPSC member and take Black Badge course as i just simply don't have time and money to participate in both sports at this point.
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I am certain you will find the NSO informative, challenging, encouraging and most of all fun. See you on the 24th.
 
Steve David said:
What does Bill C45 that have to do with this?
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I had to look it up as I am not familiar with it.....


What is Bill C-45?

Bill C-45 is federal legislation that amended the Canadian Criminal Code and became law on March 31, 2004. The Bill established new legal duties for workplace health and safety, and imposed serious penalties for violations that result in injuries or death. The Bill provided new rules for attributing criminal liability to organizations, including corporations, their representatives and those who direct the work of others. .

New Sections of the Criminal Code

Bill C-45 added Section 217.1 to the Criminal Code which reads:

"217.1 Every one who undertakes, or has the authority, to direct how another person does work or performs a task is under a legal duty to take reasonable steps to prevent bodily harm to that person, or any other person, arising from that work or task."
Bill C-45 also added Sections 22.1 and 22.2 to the Criminal Code imposing criminal liability on organizations and its representatives for negligence (22.1) and other offences (22.2).
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Full Text
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Sites/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/Bills_ls.asp?Language=E&Parl=37&Ses=2&ls=c45
 
Steve David said:
Thanks Tim, I know what it is, and I have taken the training as did all the Directors at our club, but I am not seeing what it has to do with IDPA? So now everyone who teaches IDPA, IPSC, PPC or any other holster discipline requires C45 training?
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I believe what they are implying is that all us SOs are criminally responsible for anyone getting hurt while we are SOing. I call BULL. No criminal intent. Even though they added organizations to the law it's a stretch holding an SO to that responsibility.
 
cbabes said:
I believe what they are implying is that all us SOs are criminally responsible for anyone getting hurt while we are SOing. I call BULL. No criminal intent. Even though they added organizations to the law it's a stretch holding an SO to that responsibility.
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I would not say while "SO'ing" a course of fire.... I believe the intent of the post was to show that the INSTRUCTOR is liable while instructing a "course"...

as an SO your not "instructing" anything during an ordinary course of fire practice night or match.... you should be letting the shooter do his thing without disturbing him unless there is a safety concern or a rule violation.

an instructor is instructing, he is not so'ing...
 
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