IDPA promotional video

relliott said:
"But IDPA is meant to reinforce street level defensive needs. Apples and oranges."

I would agree with that if the targets were shooting back at you. Otherwise, it's the same basic skill set, shooting wise. Just different rules.
Not to slag ISPC, but quick and accurate shooting is the only practical skill set I think you learn in that competition. Drawing your Elcan equiped 1911 from a speed holster (which is firmly attached via inner and outer belts) and double-tapping targets without worrying about your own exposure.... well, it's fun, but it isn't practical - and Yes, I know there are different classes within ISPC.

In IDPA there are those that will choose equipment based on what gives them a competitive advantage instead of based on what they do or would carry in the real world, but overall I think it develops more practical skills than just fast, accurate shooting.

In the end it doesn't matter to me though since we don't have ISPC nor IDPA matches around here. The Cowboy Action Shoot's looks fun though. :D
 
Bartledan said:
You mean, discourage the gaming aspect by keeping score?

The scores don't count for shiite. Prizes aren't awarded, so it doesn't matter. It just gives the shooter a reference of how 'well' they did. -at least that is my take.


Bartledan said:
When you go out for a run, it is training. When you steal third base, it is a game.

I have no idea where you are going with this analogy.
Again, I agree, if someone wants to make a game of it, they can fill their boots.

Bartledan said:
IDPA is also just a game, but the people who play it like to pretend they are more macho than people who like other games.

:rolleyes: Sure thing Dan.
 
CanFire said:
Not to slag ISPC, but quick and accurate shooting is the only practical skill set I think you learn in that competition. Drawing your Elcan equiped 1911 from a speed holster (which is firmly attached via inner and outer belts) and double-tapping targets without worrying about your own exposure.... well, it's fun, but it isn't practical - and Yes, I know there are different classes within ISPC.

In IDPA there are those that will choose equipment based on what gives them a competitive advantage instead of based on what they do or would carry in the real world, but overall I think it develops more practical skills than just fast, accurate shooting.

In the end it doesn't matter to me though since we don't have ISPC nor IDPA matches around here. The Cowboy Action Shoot's looks fun though. :D

First of all, I think it prudent to mention that since civilian use of handguns for self defense in Canada is all but forbidden, the idea of training for "tactical" situations seems a little pointless to me.

Secondly, I think I come by my opinions honestly. I have competed in IPSC for over twenty years; I have observed IDPA and Also played a fair bit of paintball where at least the targets are shooting back. For a great many years I also trained in various martial arts, and though I am not training currently, I have over the years put a lot of time into the pursuit and understanding of the "martial mindset." I learned the physical techniques through repetitive practice and kata, but I learned how to put it all together by actually fighting. I was never one to slavishly follow any prescribed dogma. Instead, I preferred to work out for myself what was effective and what was not....for me, and that made me unpopular in some classes.

Accordingly, I believe the following to be true about martial art/science:

Physical techniques and tactical awareness are two completely separate things. This is an important delineation to be aware of. Execution and application: Both are symbiotically linked, but essentially different. IDPA and IPSC both use the exact same shooting skills or execution, period. There is no disputing this. The type of gun and the applied rule sets are immaterial to the basic techniques. A good shooter can pick up any type of gun in any division and do well with it if his/her techniques are sound. But few IPSC or IDPA competitors could use these skills effectively in real life combat scenarios without the requisite training in tactical application, which can only happen outside of the competitive arena.

In IDPA I see competitors routinely do things that no one trained in real combat techniques would ever do. Sure, the rules mandate use of cover and competitors for the most part follow this rule, but many don't know for certain that they are using cover correctly because they are not being engaged by their targets. For example: If you duck behind cover to do a reload and take your eyes off of your target even for a moment, you are probably going to get shot in the face as soon as you stick your head back out again. Especially if you stick it out in the exact same place, because they will be waiting for you to do so and will have the visual advantage. You may even just get shot in the elbow or knee since you think that you are behind cover because you can't see the target from where your head is positioned, but they can still see parts of you. Nor would you just stick your head and gun out around a corner and start blazing; you would slice the pie at least to minimize your exposure. You can't do this with a timer running or you will loose. I learned about use of cover from both sides of the equation in about fifteen seconds while playing paintball. It was certainly an enlightening moment for me, but even in paintball one will take risks they wouldn't take in real life in order to win, because winning is the objective.

Bottom line: you simply can not teach tactical awareness in a competitive arena. Competition is by its very nature about finding shortcuts that take you to the defined goal (winning) more quickly/effectively than everyone else. Defensive combat is about terminating a threat while surviving the encounter if possible, by whatever means necessary or available, and a rule book and timer have no validity for this. Your tactical preparedness (trained into the subconscious in realistic training scenarios) will however be greatly enhanced by correct use of effective technique, and these can be learned in either IPSC or IDPA competition.

But this is of course all just my opinion. I can't mathematically prove any of it either way so as I said before; you pays your money and takes your frame of reference. Just have fun and all will be well with the world.

Rant mode off.
 
relliott said:
First of all, I think it prudent to mention that since civilian use of handguns for self defense in Canada is all but forbidden, the idea of training for "tactical" situations seems a little pointless to me.
Whenever I hear the term "tactical" I think of SWAT teams and mall ninja's. Defensive pistol techniques aren't tactical, they are defensive, and practicing them certainly isn't pointless. Someday the laws may change, I may move to a more enlightened country, or I might fear for my life more so than I fear getting arrested. I agree that there is no substitute for real life experience, but I'm not going to run around insulting gang members just to get some live-fire training. IPSC and IDPA are games, but they do teach practical skills.

BTW, I did some paintball once and I was very surprised out how much having people shooting back changes things. I got pinned down behind a shed and it took me a few moments to screw up enough courage to break cover and return fire. I don't know how our men and women in uniform can think clearly when it's real bullets whizzing around.
 
"Defensive pistol techniques aren't tactical, they are defensive, and practicing them certainly isn't pointless."

Tactics can be either defensive or offensive. Whether practicing them is pointless or not is a question of point of view. I will never carry a gun, so for me it is a waste of time.

"but I'm not going to run around insulting gang members just to get some live-fire training."

I never suggested that actual combat was the only way to develop tactical awareness. I merely suggested that competition will develop shooting skills, not tactical skills.

"BTW, I did some paintball once and I was very surprised out how much having people shooting back changes things. I got pinned down behind a shed and it took me a few moments to screw up enough courage to break cover and return fire. I don't know how our men and women in uniform can think clearly when it's real bullets whizzing around."

Totally agree with you on that one. I would be crapping in my pants. Those people have my utmost respect.
 
Canfire

FYI, but i know MH has an action pistol league. as well they are IPSC matches in both Brooks and Lethbridge. Lethbridge is holding the 2007 Alberta Provincials and the 2008 Canadian Nationals.
 
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CanFire said:
I got pinned down behind a shed and it took me a few moments to screw up enough courage to break cover and return fire. I don't know how our men and women in uniform can think clearly when it's real bullets whizzing around.

I always used to run away. You'd think I was French. :D
 
Oh yeah, and I would have DQ'd the guy who tried to do an El Pres at around the 1 min 15 sec part of the video...
 
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