If a round ignites while in storage, will it cause the bullet to penetrate cabinet?

[rookie wildcat]

YOU ARE ALL WRONG

We had a fire at the(informal) range to burn our cardboard from the shotgun boxes and targets once. Was a shotgun shell laying on the ground. Primer went off and buried 4 INCHES into my buddies leg. Tiny little peice of metal, looked like a throwing star. Had it been in my kids head or someone's neck, or hit an artery, might have been ugly.Once in a million, but it could happen. Saying a round won't explode and hurt you is wrong.

4"?? How thick is your buddy's leg that it penetrated that far into his leg and didn't hit bone?

I think you need to rethink that. As a kid we used to put shotgun shells in a soup can, base down and set it in a campfire. Never tore the cans up, but all of the cooked off. Pretty much went out the open end.

Wish I was willing to part with 1000 rounds. I would load up an ammo can and throw it in a fire. See how many bullets exited and wound up a block away, because none of the small cans of linked 7.62x51mm ammo let any bullets get out. Guess I didn't do it right.

 

[crackerbarrel2]

I believe the show "Myth Busters" did a piece on this issue a while back.....

 

[critter928]

Wish I was willing to part with 1000 rounds. I would load up an ammo can and throw it in a fire. See how many bullets exited and wound up a block away, because none of the small cans of linked 7.62x51mm ammo let any bullets get out.Guess I didn't do it right

I guess not.

I saved you the trouble and lost dozens of ammunition cans and many many thousands of rounds when my house burned down.

Here are some samples;

Pic One - .308 rounds tightly packet, several exited the can;

Pic two - .223 from a half filled can (no exits);

Pic three - 9mm tightly packed, several exited the can and it looked like a bag of Jiffy Pop;

I have dozens of more photos I could upload, put the point is made.

Ammunition that was tightly packed in steel ammo cans all had several rounds in each that exited out of them (incidentally, a brick wall at my work a block away at a dozen or so projectiles along it in the parking lot). It appears to be only several out each one of several hundred, but it was consistent with a few from each can in several different calibre's exiting the cans.

Ammunition that had room to expand within the can just popped off and never exited.

It is a fact.

 

[critter928]

And anyone care to venture how much force those rounds that didn't exit the cans exerted on them to dent the interiors the way they did?

How about to expand the cans like the 9mm ones?

Take an ammo can, and hit it with a ball peen hammer and see how much force it takes to do that to an ammo can.

Now picture how much force it took to rip holes in the can the way the tightly packed ones were.

While not the chamber of a firearm, the effect of tightly packed ammunition in a latched closed steel ammo can is still dramatic and violent when there is no place for the expanding cartridges to go and the weak link in the chain is pushing a projectile out of the front of the brass at some pretty extreme velocities.

 

[critter928]

Wish I was willing to part with 1000 rounds. I would load up an ammo can and throw it in a fire. See how many bullets exited and wound up a block away, because none of the small cans of linked 7.62x51mm ammo let any bullets get out. Guess I didn't do it right.

So are you ready to do that experiment that refutes my observations yet?

I am waiting for the pictures to be posted as I have done.

I see lots of people saying what they think will happen, but no proof to refute my experience and photos.

Nothing?

 

[nullshine]

I think there are a large number of variables that come into play in this type of situation.

Ammo can construction
-Military surplus vs. commercial (what are the differences, if any?)
-Seal materials.

Ammunition construction
-Crimped primers?
-Large vs. small primers.
-Steel cases vs brass.
-Bullet crimp "strength".
-Powder burn rates.
-Bullet diameter and weight.
-How well the cartridges happen to interlock/stack (or don't) with each other within the dimensions of the ammo can.

The fire itself.
-How were the ammo cans introduced to it?
-The temperature of the materials burning, and how the fast the temperature of the ammo can rose (externally and internally).

I think the situation is actually pretty complex, it really isn't a "yes" or "no" answer.

My stuff is packed into plastic ammo cans, although I do have a couple steel ones with .22LR, I'm not worried about either.

 

[volitaire]

Question: can it penetrate
Answer: yes it can as shown by the photos above..

is it likely?.. who knows

 

[critter928]

Question: can it penetrate
Answer: yes it can as shown by the photos above..

is it likely?.. who knows

Exactly, and it goes back to what I said in my first post;

As I posted in a previous thread, if the ammo is tightly packed in a steel ammo can, or even in a loaded metal magazine, there is a possibility of the ammunition exploding fairly violently, and resulting in the possibility of it penetrating a metal ammo can, and travel up to a block away.

As only a few dozen of thousands of rounds did so (despite being consistent with all tightly packed cans doing so, and looser packed not doing so, and this was regardless of caliber - centre fire pistol and rifle cartridges), it is not a certainty, but it appears to be very good possibility and something to consider when packing and storing ammunition (leave some room for expansion in case of fire).

 

[deadeyes40]

we were told to remove the seal or drill holes in the ammo can to prevent pressure building up in the event of a fire.

 

[critter928]

we were told to remove the seal or drill holes in the ammo can to prevent pressure building up in the event of a fire.

Unfortunately that removes all the benefits of storing ammunition in a sealed ammunition can.

I simpler answer exists.

My unintentional unplanned experiment at my insurance companies expense tells me as long as the can is not packed to the brim tight with ammunition, that even if sealed and around 80% full there will be no penetrations of the can and it will all just cook off like popcorn (and at most deform the can a little). The seal will melt and vent the gasses building up.

Packed tight and sealed and it appears some of the rounds could end up being supported as if they were in a quasi improvised chamber surrounded tightly by other rounds and when they cook off and have nowhere to expand to they choose the path of least resistance pushing the projectile violently out the front and through even a sheet of mild steel the container was constructed out of, some of which could be recovered a block away.

At least that is the best explanation I have of the only test case I have to rely on.

If someone is willing to duplicate the experiment to different effect, I am willing to change my opinion once again (this went against what I thought I knew at the time).

 

[Ardent]

4"?? How thick is your buddy's leg that it penetrated that far into his leg and didn't hit bone?

I think you need to rethink that. [/SIZE][/SIZE]

I hope your legs have at least 4" of meat on them before bone... most do.

 

[nanuk]

My legs have about 12-14" of meat, I have a 32" inseam


re: ammo cans

I gotta go with Critter928 on this one... Pictures speak far louder than speculation

I'm going to make sure all my Sealed cans are reduced to 3/4 or less

I would have never thought..... I've seen pics of experiments by NRA of cooking off rounds, but these were in the open


Thanks for burning your house down Critter, so the rest of us can learn something!

 

[Juster]

I enjoyed the ammo can pictures, sorry about the house.
Here is an interesting shotshell detonation video, live from around the back of the trailer park:

Surprised me, there you go.