If AR's became NR, would XCR owners trade their XCR's for an AR of equal value...
- Thread starter Zeroed-In
- Start date
Well I'm no XCR hater .... But I am a price gouging hater --- however having never purchased an AR , nor a Tavor, XCR , HK SL8 etc and being entirely unfamiliar with identifying quality -vs sub quality AR platforms Except to generally Understand in CGN Land Norinco= Bad, borderline junk but inexpensive -- Diemaco = Top shelf but expensive.
A quick browse of some dealer pricing revealed the following. Note I simply searched randomly until I found a few Black Rifles with pricing, there may be better pricing if one shops around.
NR
Tavor .................................$2700
Hk SL8 ............................ $2599.00
Famae 542 .......................... $2650.00 -- $3000.00
XCR various models .............$2795, $2995, $3195
Benelli MR1 ..........................$1800.00
AR
DPMS ....................................$875.00
Sig M400 ...............................$1200.00 - $1400.00
Thureon Defense ....................$1279.00
Diemaco SA 20 .......................$2099.00
Now I realize there are other manufacturers and folks might find some variation in pricing, I understand some people assemble AR from parts / components etc and from a simplicity perspective I don't mean to ruffle any feathers and accept that people can come along and compare some other models, sales, promotionsand the spread might move a bit. Again in reading this thread I simply took a few minutes and found some pricing on some site sponsor's web pages for AR rifles and some NR black rifles in .223
In looking at the above 2 lists it certainly appears that the price spread amongst the various NR black rifles compared to the AR-15 rifles is hardly insignificant.
I have no way of knowing but I would speculate that of the RPAL holders that own only 1 restricted rifle there would not be very many that owned a Tavor, XCR etc with a short barrel .as their single restricted rifle. ... I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I doubt it happens very often.
I again have no way of knowing how many AR-15 owners purchase a rifle with a 18.5" or longer barrel but just from reading the forums, seeing guys at the range and looking at the specs of the rifles for sale I'd say a high percentage of them out there are under 18.5 inches.
I also suspect that that a significant percentage of the other rifles (the ones that are NR so long as they don't have a short barrel) are sold with NR barrels in Canada.
Now I always assumed that the higher relative price that some of these rifles enjoy was heavily tied to the fact that they are Non Restricted. I've read tons of threads on here over the years where one member chimes in that he prefers his AR or that it is more accurate etc ..... and although the counter point from the other poster might include some thoughts on reliability or accuracy ..they practically always point out that the individual likes to be able to shoot his Firearm anywhere, he doesn't Need an RPAL to buy it more recently that he/ she doesn't have to register it etc.
Anyway if Tomorrow the AR was an unrestricted firearm and a Diemaco could Still be had for $200-$300 more than an MR1 and $500 -$1000 less than anything else on that list and or one could practically buy 3 DPMS for about the price of a Tavor (+ or - $200) I mean I can't be the only one who would deduce that the sales volume of the other NR black rifles would plummet ....
At the same time a huge percentage of the PAL holders that have been lamenting Buying a 223 semi but couldn't justify 2K plus for one to plink with in the bush and couldn't imagine Said rifle geting extra work / $ justification by additionally becoming their go to varmint rifle for accuracy reasons (real or imagined) and yes I understand SOME offerings are more accurate out of the box than others .....
My point is that I think Overnight the AR would become the most popular NR semi .223.
Further I expect that If one was going to purchase a sub $1000.00 rifle AR would outsell T97 and the stuff from keltec, guys could unload also a couple of SKS and pick up a Norinco AR etc
If someone was going to spend 2K or more Sig, HK, IWI, Robarms etc would all find themselves being comparison shopped vs Diemaco and other high end AR platforms..... and continually find themselves the more expensive choice.
This all centers around the idea that the the "NR Price Gouge" is in fact a ridiculous secret conspiracy idea not worth considering.
All I know is that the ONLY reason I would spend $1000.00 - $1500 more for an XCR , SIG, IWI ... over an AR is because they are unrestricted. I can't say for certain they are that much more expensive is only because they are Non restricted, I'm just saying that's the only reason i'd pay that much more for one .......... as opposed to buying an AR.
Should we someday see the AR-15 unrestricted It's just my speculation but I honestly think that the price difference would narrow fairly considerably .... maybe that means the AR would become more expensive, maybe that would mean the others would come down in price -- maybe both. But if that were to happen and all that changes is the classification of the AR I don't know how ridiculous the idea of an "NR price gouge" would seem.
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Brad34340, you do know that XCR-L cost around $2500CAD in Canada and it cost around $2000 CAD in USA?
The tavor is $2500CAD in Canada an around $2000 CAD in USA?
If Ar15 become non restricted, the demand for Ar15 would increase and the price of Ar15 will increase and it will not stay at the current prices.
The tavor is $2500CAD in Canada an around $2000 CAD in USA?
If Ar15 become non restricted, the demand for Ar15 would increase and the price of Ar15 will increase and it will not stay at the current prices.
Well Frankly I didn't specifically know that Where can one source a Tavor and or and XCR L for 2500 in Canada?
What does an AR cost in the US in cad?
I'm with you though if the AR was to become non restricted in Canada the prices would all go up.
Please keep in mind I'm in no way crapping on Tavor or XCR platforms .... I just believe they demand a comparitive premium (over the AR platform) in Canada because they are Unrestricted .... and I believe their demand is skewed positively in this country for them because of this Classification..... more so than features and benifits -- I'm NOT saying there are no features and benifits , just that those are not the primary things that make them popular. If the classifications were both unrestricted ... they'd need to be more in line with AR pricing or they would gather dust on the shelves.
I also (obviously) don't believe the idea of NR price Gouging is rediculous
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
I bought my Tavor for $2500 and my XCR L for $2350. These are non sale prices, they are normal prices at that time. But this was a while ago and prices have gone up because of our weak Canadian dollar.
WeatherdoG
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Trenton, ON
It could also be that both the Tavor and XCR haven't been around for 50+ years and the companys that designed them are recuperating R&D money as well as running specialized tooling to produce almost every part in house. They lack the benefit of hundreds of manufacturers producing common parts in competition with one another that they can source from.
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
Good point... Also tho...
When the XCR was released it was sold as a next generation AR... Piston gun with a monolithic upper, lots of rail space, enhanced ambi features, better trigger then "most" AR's out of the box, as or if not "more" accurate than all but target specific AR's... It had a lot of hype behind it to justify the price tag and all you needed was lots of money and your name on a wait list 6 months long to own one.... Oh yeah, and red loc-tite... Lots of it... Everywhere....
I wish I had those two in my safe I'm betting you're pleased.
I did find a Tavor listed at CSC for $2579.00 so close ---- Wolverine has one listed for $2625.00 they also have listed an XCR-L in 223 for $2610.00 and I believe the key Mod version at $2795.00
Do you own an AR and if so what did you pay for it?
Good Point .... although it would also mean parts are less readily available wouldn't you say?
While I'm roaming around "fantasy land" dreaming about the day when the Canadian Government reclasifies the AR to non restricted Could we agree that any price increase the AR experiences at that time couldn't be blamed on recouping R&D and tooling costs ?
Could we agree that should all pricing remain relatively the same "spread" as it is now ..... it would be dificult to imagine Canadian Gun owners flocking to non AR platforms when there was this much money seperating the two?
Do you believe if the AR was non-restricted tomorrow -- the price of them would remain the same as they are today? If not what would cause the change ?
I am pretty sure if there was few hundred XCR or Tavor parts manufacturers, You will see AR pricing on XCR and Tavors.
AR are cheap because all of parts are ready made items you can get from other manufacturers some are from overseas and all you have to do is have your logo engraved on the side and no one will know any difference.
AR are cheap because all of parts are ready made items you can get from other manufacturers some are from overseas and all you have to do is have your logo engraved on the side and no one will know any difference.
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WeatherdoG
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Trenton, ON
As far as I am aware there are lots of parts available for the XCR right now, Wolverine seems to keep their stock up. There is less choice for parts, but that doesn't equate to a difficult time getting them.
While RA and IWI have a real case for recovering R&D costs, it would be hard for Colt to justify that line for the AR... but if you want to think that who am I to call you wrong? I don't work for any firearms manufacturer. I will agree with you on the idea that most Canadians buying a NR rifle would jump on a NR AR before an XCR or Tavor, but that's the same reason more Canadians drive a Honda Civic than a Subaru Impreza... It costs less and does most of the same things.
The XCR ergos are significantly better, but the AR weight is significantly better. I think XCR is less likely to jam in dirty conditions but for civilian purposes I don't think that's an issue. I think it comes down to which of those attributes are more attractive.
I also think the buffer tube on the AR is silly, and doesn't allow folding stocks.
I also think the buffer tube on the AR is silly, and doesn't allow folding stocks.
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Yes I have a DD ar15...forgot what I paid for it, probably was $1,500
Please define "significantly better" weight advantage?
The latest generation XCR-L keymod in .223,18.6" light bbl weighs 7.2lbs naked.
Short(prohib) bbl ARs come in at 6lbs+.....some variants are 8lb+...let's say 6.5lbs minimum naked for an 18" bbl version.....in what world is a 1/2 lb "significantly better" aside from Weigh####chers Girlyman Stick Arms Anonymous?.....GAA for short if you will?
Seriously tho,if one finds a 7lb gun prohibitively heavy......perhaps said person's physique is better suited to Airsoft games?
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