If it was 1914...

Here's a few pictures I took on a visit to Passchendaele a couple of years ago...The three headstones in a row were relatively new. The remains of 3 Canadian soldiers were found together whilst renovations were being done to the farmhouse in the distance...Cemetaries around every corner here..The Maple Leaf on most of the headstones..Quite an emotional trip..

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Again... we feel welcomed here on CGN:mad:

My intent was NOT to make quebecers feel unwelcome, but it is a FACT that in WW1, the province of Quebec was, very broadly, opposed to the war, or more specifically, having to serve in the CEF during the war.

It's a fact that the opposition was so bad that troops were called in to quell a riot and troops from Toronto were brought in to machine-gun the rampaging mob. People were killed.

This was not the case in any other part of Canada.

If this outrages you, you need to read up a bit more on the history of your province and its inhabitants. I'm not drawing any conlcusions about French Canadians (I AM a French Canadian from New Brunswick), merely recounting established history.
 
No beef with you nor the facts, yet somehow CGNers are often quick to jump in and offer their opinions when something Québec related pops up. Funny how these comments are, more often than not, less than gracious; just saying.
 
No beef with you nor the facts, yet somehow CGNers are often quick to jump in and offer their opinions when something Québec related pops up. Funny how these comments are, more often than not, less than gracious; just saying.

And slightly off-topic. The Conscription Crisis is indeed worth remembering, but I suspect that's a different discussion altogether. The 22ieme Regiment, while the only Francophone regiment in the CEF and no doubt put up with a fair bit of period racism from the Anglos, were highly decorated and respected. I always try to remember them whenever Quebec's loyalty is called into question.
 
I will simply make one observation: if you carry around a visible chip on your shoulder and point to it on every possible occasion, don't be surprised if, sooner or later, somebody offers to knock it off for you.

Quebec was actually far better-off under the "sales Anglaises" than it ever was under the Lilies and, at one time, French-Canadians actually realised and understood that. We were well on our way to making ourselves into a single Nation. But then came interference from Europe in the form of Ultramontanism, a Church reaction against the secular power. In Italy, VOTING became a SIN and, by the time the Great War came around, the Germans had become God's instrument for punishing France for its treatment of Holy Church. There is much more to the entire issue than people wish to talk about. Some day it must be understood, for these influences are still pushing us apart. The rest of the country has tried pandering to Quebec for a full century now, attempting to bribe them into becoming good Canadians. It hasn't worked. Perhaps the time is at hand to try EQUALITY for a change.

One thing Quebec should try is to remove the reflexive "me" from those licence-plates and start thinking of more than just themselves. As far as the VanDoos are concerned, they can keep the "me" and they are more than welcome to it: they have a great and honourable history to look back upon, as do several other Quebec regiments and the many, many thousands of French-Canadians who have faithfully served OUR country.

Sorry for the sermon, but I am from a part of the country where we don't pick at a wound for 250 years, trying to keep it open and bleeding. We let it scab over, scar.... and eventually disappear.

NOW LET'S GET BACK TO THE MAIN ISSUE: 1914.

I am thinking that a German immigrant who came here after the age of 18 already would have been conscripted as a part of the Imperial German military service. He would thus have been a sworn servant of the Kaiser and of his local King already and to break faith with THEM would have been TREASON. And he would STILL BE A MEMBER OF THE RESERVES. On the other hand, he had chosen to become a Canadian..... and there was, as yet, NO such thing as Canadian Citizenship, would not be for another 35 years.

So he had a choice of fighting for the country he had LEFT or committing Treason in order to fight for the country he had CHOSEN. When I was a kid, I had neighbours who already had been here for 2 and 3 generations before the War even started. This included a family closely related to FM von Hindenberg and another family closely related to the General commanding German troops on Vimy Ridge. They were NOT trusted. It was manifestly unfair, of course, considering that Uncle Erle served 6-1/2 years in the Canadian Artillery...... and could not speak a word of German! No matter: his medals spoke volumes.

In the end, it all was worked out, but the end product was ugly and nasty and unfair, but it suited public opinion. Enemy aliens were registered, issued cards and many of their civil rights reduced. When I was driving cab, I had a trip every night from a local Motel, to take the cleaning-lady home. She spoke almost NO English, could not even give her address clearly. I had a BIT of Ukrainian by that time and was able to talk with her a bit. Turned out she still was MIGHTILY p*ssd at the Government of Canada because they had made her register for an Enemy Alien Card because her Passport said that she was AUSTRIAN (she was from the Austrian part of Galicia, today part of Ukraine) and she was on OUR SIDE.

Unfair, of course, but in the face of NO Oath of Citizenship, what else could be done?
 
I find that rather odd about Quebec considering that everything there is in Fwench. One would think they would have jumped at the chance of serving their "mother country"
Anyway if you had rushed to enlist in 1914, the odds are you would have been DEAD within the month considering the tactics at the time.

And I am not excusing Pershing, who learned NOTHING from the Brits and French and simply repeated what had not worked in 1914:mad:
 
If it was 1914....

Me.... probably with these guys.... or another CEF locally....

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http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...fvdXNT9mjwXL5l70t_sI6Mw&bvm=bv.51156542,d.cGE

:canadaFlag:
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NAA.
 
I find that rather odd about Quebec considering that everything there is in Fwench. One would think they would have jumped at the chance of serving their "mother country"
Anyway if you had rushed to enlist in 1914, the odds are you would have been DEAD within the month considering the tactics at the time.

And I am not excusing Pershing, who learned NOTHING from the Brits and French and simply repeated what had not worked in 1914:mad:

Not exactly. The French essentially abandoned their former colony after the fall of Quebec in 1763, so there was not a spirit of great sympathy, gratitude or obligation for France among the Quebec population. The Brits took a very enlightened and benevolent attitude towards the Quebec population after they assumed control, allowing them to maintain their language, religion, code of laws and culture. This was not done from entirely altruistic motives, but rather served to keep the population pacified and contented and defused any tendency for them to join the Yankee rabble in their uprising to the south.

Canada has always been a rather tenuous union over the years because of it's comparatively small population, geographic isolation and the existence of a distinctive linguistic and political block in the country in the form of Quebec. Conciliation towards Quebec has always loomed large in Canadian politics with major political parties prepared to make major concessions in order to win the allegiance of this major voting block and to maintain national unity, or at least a façade thereof. Over the years this has been accomplished with financial and cultural concessions. There is no doubt that Quebec would be anywhere near what it is today in terms of prosperity, culture, language without this sustainment from the rest of the country.

This has been somewhat of a double-edged sword as it has kept Quebec in the country while serving to increase it's cultural and fiscal strength at the same time which continues to encourage a strong separatist sentiment among the French speaking population. This plays well among the liberal and academic sector who tend to form the political leadership in Quebec, but has less resonance among many who can grasp the practicalities of an independent Quebec sustaining itself as an island of 6 million French speakers adrift in the sea of an English speaking North American culture of 350 million. Quebec tends to suffer from the mindset of a minority in this larger entity where, deservedly or not, folks remain guarded, introspective and somewhat paranoid about losing their cultural and linguistic distinctiveness. This is why we continue to see their silly linguistic laws, racial intolerance, and targeted immigration policies which aim at importing French speakers in order to compensate for their own low birthrate.

The world view of Quebecers is quite different from that of the majority of the population. This is evident in their continuing lack of support for military involvements and military service and a preference for "softer" influence in the form of cultural, linguistic and educational assistance, especially in French speaking countries around the world. Their support for Haiti and the presence of a large expatriate Haitian community in Quebec is an example of this.
 
People tend to forget that there was a strong sense of service in Quebec in the years leading up to 1914. Many of our country's early leaders were from there. The Montreal "Golden Mile" was all Anglophone pro British largely, and they signed up en masses in 1914. Many we're already in the local militias. They were all killed off, leaving only the Francophone separatists and objectors. Papineau is a good example of one of these volunteers.

Speaking from the perspective of 1914, I would have volunteered and been killed along with all the rest. Speaking from the modern perspective, WWI was a total f-ing waste. It is always spoken of as the war which made Canada, etc, but I would like to think that had it to occurred, Canada would have done just fine. Just thnk what we could have accomplished without losing those 25,000 young men at a time when our population was only about 2 or 3 million. Entire university classes wiped it. A generation wiped out. And for what? Because the French hated the Germans and vice versa, and because Queen Victoria's various offspring didn't get along. Czar Nicholas, Kaiser Wilhelm, and King George V all disliked each other, and it was a time of nationalistic sabre rattling. However, at the time it all seemed noble, and I'm sure if I was a prairie boy I would have signed up for the big adventure too. Beat the Huns by Christmas.....

Ed
 
People tend to forget that there was a strong sense of service in Quebec in the years leading up to 1914. Many of our country's early leaders were from there. The Montreal "Golden Mile" was all Anglophone pro British largely, and they signed up en masses in 1914. Many we're already in the local militias. They were all killed off, leaving only the Francophone separatists and objectors. Papineau is a good example of one of these volunteers.

Speaking from the perspective of 1914, I would have volunteered and been killed along with all the rest. Speaking from the modern perspective, WWI was a total f-ing waste. It is always spoken of as the war which made Canada, etc, but I would like to think that had it to occurred, Canada would have done just fine. Just thnk what we could have accomplished without losing those 25,000 young men at a time when our population was only about 2 or 3 million. Entire university classes wiped it. A generation wiped out. And for what? Because the French hated the Germans and vice versa, and because Queen Victoria's various offspring didn't get along. Czar Nicholas, Kaiser Wilhelm, and King George V all disliked each other, and it was a time of nationalistic sabre rattling. However, at the time it all seemed noble, and I'm sure if I was a prairie boy I would have signed up for the big adventure too. Beat the Huns by Christmas.....

Ed
 
........Anyway if you had rushed to enlist in 1914, the odds are you would have been DEAD within the month considering the tactics at the time....:

That is just perpetuating a myth John. In 1914 the troops were all regulars and the war was still one of movement, trench war not really setting in until the winter. The men who enlisted in Britain in 1914 were for the Kitchener New Armies and did not see action until much later. For the Canadians, the 1st Canadian Division did not go into the line until 10th March 1915 at Neuve Chapelle. I don't know when the Canadian volunteers of 1914 were sufficiently trained to start being used as replacement drafts, but it would have been some time later in 1915.

The idea that volunteeers were rushed straight from the recruiting office to the trenches is just a myth. Apart from anything else, there was simply no equipment for them, especially rifles!

Regards
TonyE
 
Not bad SMELLIE, BUT... Let me precise a point please

Nicely said Smellie, BUT, being an historian myself and a teacher, I must say that its very obvious in this country that history is not analysed the same way if you are an anglo-canadian of a french-canadian. I'm refering to you statment about the fact that french canadians were better under english rule/occupation than under the french régime... This is a popular point of view within the anglophone community of historians, but it is simply not true and its probably the result of a colonialist and paternalist influence. The fact is that french canadians were undermined from the beginning (I,m sure your know about Lord Durham report...) by the British autorities, despite the Act of Quebec in 1774... Dont forget the Rebellion of 1837-38! Happy peoples dont take arms against their governement... So no, french canadians were NOT better off under british rules... Everything wast nice with France, but its the lot of every colony to have issues with the motherland. This has been discussed for years and years by many historians, Frégault, SÉguin and Breton among others. I'm not saying that you are wrong on porpose, but simplly that history isnt teached nor interpreted the same way in french Canada than it is in anglo-Canada. BUT... This being said, I agree with most of your post nevertheless and I really appreciate your threads wich i read everytime. By the way, beside being an historian, I had the honor to serve my country in the Royal 22e Régiment for a while and I'v been accross Canada doing it, that teached me more about Canada and its peoples than any political speach :) :)
 
That is just perpetuating a myth John. In 1914 the troops were all regulars

Regards
TonyE

Not the Canadians. The First Division which sailed to England in 1914 and then to France in 1915 was all militia. The tiny Canadian Permanent Force (Regulars) had been dispatched to Bermuda for garrison duty by the eccentric M&D minister Sam Hughes. The result was that there almost no trained instructors for the CEF.
 
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