If you could only have one
- Thread starter HooliganD
- Start date
I don't think it'll make a big difference. I switched out the TRS on my Q5 to give me a 3.5lbs pull. I might be a bit more accurate with the 3.5lbs pull over the 5lbs pull, but that maybe a placebo effect. My double tap split times are still the same. Even if you have a crappy trigger like in a M&P or Glock a better trigger will give you a bit better accuracy but it's not going to help with recoil management and your split times. Speed seems to be the name of the game when it comes to being competitive in IPSC.
Are you sure the DA/SA guns are allowed a 3lb minimum first pull?
I am not up on IPSC rules by any means. I will shoot club matches for trigger time and to support the club using my striker fired pistols.
Take Care
Bob
DA/SA have to start with hammer down or decocked, As per Appendix D4 Special Condition 6. If your DA pull is 3lbs odds are your SA is less then 3lbs. That would break the 3lbs every pull rule. So for DA/SA first pull must be min 5lbs then SA can be whatever.
Yes.
It's outlined in the testing procedures. Hence me trying to make that distinction to you and others.
From the rule book:
--------------------------------------
When a minimum trigger pull is required by a Division, handguns will be tested as follows:
2.27kg (5lbs.) for the First Shot
1. The unloaded handgun will be prepared as if the handgun is ready to fire a double action shot;
2. The trigger weight or scale will be attached as closely as possible to the center of the trigger face;
3. The trigger of the handgun must either:
(a) Raise and hold a 2.27kg (5lbs.) weight when the muzzle of the handgun is pointed vertically skywards
and the handgun is gently raised; or
(b) Register not less than 2.27kg (5lbs.) on a scale using the procedure specified by the Range Master;
4. One of the above tests will be conducted a maximum of 3 times;
5. If the hammer or striker does not fall on any 1 of the 3 attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers not less
than 2.27kg (5lbs.) in 3(b) above, the handgun has passed the test;
6. If the hammer or striker falls on all three (3) attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers less than 2.27kg
(5lbs.) in 3(b) above, the handgun has failed the test and, unless it passes the 1.36kg (3lbs.) for Every Shot test
below, Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply.
1.36kg (3lbs.) for Every Shot
1. The unloaded handgun will be prepared as if the handgun is ready to fire a shot;
2. The trigger weight or scale will be attached as closely as possible to the center of the trigger face;
3. The trigger of the handgun must either:
(a) Raise and hold a 1.36kg (3lbs.) weight when the muzzle of the handgun is pointed vertically skywards
and the handgun is gently raised; or
(b) Register not less than 1.36kg (3lbs.) on a scale using the procedure specified by the Range Master;
4. One of the above tests will be conducted a maximum of 3 times;
5. If the hammer or striker does not fall on any 1 of the 3 attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers not less
than 1.36kg (3lbs.) in 3(b) above, the handgun has passed the test;
6. If the hammer or striker falls on all three (3) attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers less than 1.36kg
(3lbs.) in 3(b) above, the handgun has failed the test and, unless it passes the 2.27kg (5lbs.) for the First Shot test
above, Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply.
For my Shadow, my DA pull is just over 7lbs, 8oz. My SA is 2lb, 15oz. I'm really not sure what DA/SA guns out there can have a DA/SA trigger weight under 5 lbs and over 3lb. So while it may seem comfortable to make a DA/SA vs striker distinction when talking about the rules, that isn't technically correct, since the rules don't care.
I just read the two sections. I think I understand the rule. I know my CZ85 Combat would fail the test as will my M&P Pro I suspect. My other striker fired guns should be good to go. Thanks for the clarification. My PPQ will be over 3#s for the first and subsequent pulls as will my 320Xfive. Life is good.
Some of the tuned Shadows, SP-01's and 75 Series pistols might struggle with the 3# minimum pull. I know my 85 Combat is not going to make the 3# minimum. If my back is better I may retake the test and get back into IPSC beyond the club shoots.
Take Care
Bob
Some of the tuned Shadows, SP-01's and 75 Series pistols might struggle with the 3# minimum pull. I know my 85 Combat is not going to make the 3# minimum. If my back is better I may retake the test and get back into IPSC beyond the club shoots.
Take Care
Bob
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What have you done to your CZ85C to get the DA under 5lbs?
I think you're still misunderstanding things.
If your first pull is over 5lbs, then the SA pull can be 0.0000001 ounce. Doesn't matter what the SA pull is.
[edit to add what I originally posted from the rules]
The minimum trigger pull must either be 2.27kg (5lbs.) for the first shot fired and no restriction for subsequent
shots fired,
or 1.36kg (3lbs.) for every shot fired.
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I just went back and re-read the rule. the Combat has a trigger pull just over 5# DA so it is good to go. The guy who wrote the IDPA rule book must have a brother who had a hand in writing the trigger pull rule for IPSC. :>).
To recap: If your gun has a first pull of 5#s you are good to go. If your gun has a constant pull (Striker Fired) for every pull of 3# or greater you are good to go. Hammer guns must start hammer fully down or decocked for the test and must be 5#'s or greater for the first pull.
Would my recap be correct?
A DAO hammer gun would have to meet the 5# minimum test? I don't think so in re-reading the rule. Because the trigger pull is constant it should be able to fall to the 3# requirement.
Take Care
Bob
To recap: If your gun has a first pull of 5#s you are good to go. If your gun has a constant pull (Striker Fired) for every pull of 3# or greater you are good to go. Hammer guns must start hammer fully down or decocked for the test and must be 5#'s or greater for the first pull.
Would my recap be correct?
A DAO hammer gun would have to meet the 5# minimum test? I don't think so in re-reading the rule. Because the trigger pull is constant it should be able to fall to the 3# requirement.
Take Care
Bob
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Your recap is correct.
A DAO gun would probably be fine if it fails the 5lb test because point 6 in the 5lb test allows for it to move to the 3lb for all shots test. As long as it passes that, you're good to go.
Try to remember that how a gun works, hammer, striker, whatever voodoo they invent down the road, is largely irrelevant in this. First shot will be 5lb with no restriction on subsequent shots.
or
All shots will be at least 3lbs.
Doesn't matter how the gun does it, as long as it follows either of those two paths.
A DAO gun would probably be fine if it fails the 5lb test because point 6 in the 5lb test allows for it to move to the 3lb for all shots test. As long as it passes that, you're good to go.
Try to remember that how a gun works, hammer, striker, whatever voodoo they invent down the road, is largely irrelevant in this. First shot will be 5lb with no restriction on subsequent shots.
or
All shots will be at least 3lbs.
Doesn't matter how the gun does it, as long as it follows either of those two paths.
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Could we be talking about the next wonder gun. A DAO only hammer fired pistol with a 4# DAO trigger and an all steel frame. Might be competitive against the all steel strikers that I suspect will be following Walther's lead with their PPQ Match SF. Initially comes with a 5.6lb trigger but the pull falls well below 5#s with use or a trigger return spring replacement. i may have to sell some of my guns off if the new PPQ runs to two grand.
Take Care
Bob
ps For what it is worth it might be a struggle getting a DAO hammer fired pistol much under 5$s and still be reliable.
Take Care
Bob
ps For what it is worth it might be a struggle getting a DAO hammer fired pistol much under 5$s and still be reliable.
Yes.
It's outlined in the testing procedures. Hence me trying to make that distinction to you and others.
From the rule book:
--------------------------------------
When a minimum trigger pull is required by a Division, handguns will be tested as follows:
2.27kg (5lbs.) for the First Shot
1. The unloaded handgun will be prepared as if the handgun is ready to fire a double action shot;
2. The trigger weight or scale will be attached as closely as possible to the center of the trigger face;
3. The trigger of the handgun must either:
(a) Raise and hold a 2.27kg (5lbs.) weight when the muzzle of the handgun is pointed vertically skywards
and the handgun is gently raised; or
(b) Register not less than 2.27kg (5lbs.) on a scale using the procedure specified by the Range Master;
4. One of the above tests will be conducted a maximum of 3 times;
5. If the hammer or striker does not fall on any 1 of the 3 attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers not less
than 2.27kg (5lbs.) in 3(b) above, the handgun has passed the test;
6. If the hammer or striker falls on all three (3) attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers less than 2.27kg
(5lbs.) in 3(b) above, the handgun has failed the test and, unless it passes the 1.36kg (3lbs.) for Every Shot test
below, Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply.
1.36kg (3lbs.) for Every Shot
1. The unloaded handgun will be prepared as if the handgun is ready to fire a shot;
2. The trigger weight or scale will be attached as closely as possible to the center of the trigger face;
3. The trigger of the handgun must either:
(a) Raise and hold a 1.36kg (3lbs.) weight when the muzzle of the handgun is pointed vertically skywards
and the handgun is gently raised; or
(b) Register not less than 1.36kg (3lbs.) on a scale using the procedure specified by the Range Master;
4. One of the above tests will be conducted a maximum of 3 times;
5. If the hammer or striker does not fall on any 1 of the 3 attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers not less
than 1.36kg (3lbs.) in 3(b) above, the handgun has passed the test;
6. If the hammer or striker falls on all three (3) attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers less than 1.36kg
(3lbs.) in 3(b) above, the handgun has failed the test and, unless it passes the 2.27kg (5lbs.) for the First Shot test
above, Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply.
...............and if the test does not occur on a Sunday, Tuesday or Friday between 1200hrs-1220hrs, 1400-1700, or 1830-1845hrs, on said dates in times when the wind is no more than 9km/hr out of the NW but no less than 1.5km/hr, when sunrise occurs no earlier than 0630AM, with the period between sunrise and sunset being no more than 13 hours, with the owners shirt being no more than 30 polyester the handgun has failed the test.
Jesus. Makes me not want to get into IPSC.
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
The USP is seldom mentioned when picking handguns. I don’t know why. It has an excellent stock SA trigger and is extremely accurate. It also has a safety and decocker and is polymer framed so quite light.
The only cons are a fairly long reach for a DA pull. The gun was designed around the .40S&W from the ground up so it's more than up to the task for 9mm all day.
The only cons are a fairly long reach for a DA pull. The gun was designed around the .40S&W from the ground up so it's more than up to the task for 9mm all day.
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It definitely does have a long DA pull, but with the match trigger and a lighter hammer spring, it's not a heavy pull.
- Location
- West Quebec
I had issues with the grooves till I added a Hogue slip on thin grip now it's great to shoot.
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
Correct! I have the match trigger and love the gun. Mine is in .40 so it doesn’t get shot as much as my 9mms. I should take it out again soon...
The other con for some is that it’s a BIG gun! But it is really comfortable to shoot, even in .40.
