If you had $12,000, what lathe would you get & why.

I am lucky enough to have 13x40. Great size for all around use as well as gun smithing.

The clone 40 position toolpost was a good value for sure. I checked out a Swiss one in person but for the huge cost difference couldn't justify it. It was beautiful though.

For used machines check out companies that deal in large volumes of equipment. I got mine for a very good price and there was many to choose from.

Of course, geographical issues may pose a problem if you aren't near a major center.
 
an ideal Gunsmithing lathe should have 36 or 40 " (1 meter) between centers for barrel tapering and or chambering is you want to do it on a steady rest. A Harrison 300 is a good candidate, it is inch metric as well. No Schaublin 135 or 150 has enough center to center distance, and only the Government can afford them. A new Sharp 14x40 is a great Gunsmithing lathe. Sharp makes a great Bridgy copy as well.

Most Professional Gunsmiths use Taiwanese or Chinese made 13 or 14 x 40 lathes. I am not against old iron, but it is hard to find in decent condition. I have a Harrison L6 (12"x40), a Boxford VSL 9" x22" lathe and a Rivett 1020f , All of them made in the late 60's.
 
buckbrush said:
an ideal Gunsmithing lathe should have 36 or 40 " (1 meter) between centers for barrel tapering and or chambering is you want to do it on a steady rest. A Harrison 300 is a good candidate, it is inch metric as well. No Schaublin 135 or 150 has enough center to center distance, and only the Government can afford them. A new Sharp 14x40 is a great Gunsmithing lathe. Sharp makes a great Bridgy copy as well.

Most Professional Gunsmiths use Taiwanese or Chinese made 13 or 14 x 40 lathes. I am not against old iron, but it is hard to find in decent condition. I have a Harrison L6 (12"x40), a Boxford VSL 9" x22" lathe and a Rivett 1020f , All of them made in the late 60's.
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The Government and a very very few lucky folks that stumble across the few that made landfall on these shores.

And by no means did I mean that the 135 was a great single lathe for a Gunsmith, simply, that if I had the $12K in hand, that is what I would be looking for. To go with the tooled out Schaublin 13 that I don't have yet either. :)

Cheers
Trev
 
Some really good advise coming up on this thread, I have decided to purchase a new replacement lathe for my old American Logan 14x40 which has served me almost flawlessly for the last 25 years. The reason being I find that I run into more and more metric thread situations than I used to and the Logan is not equiped to cut metric.
I have looked at many offshore brands and have recently been focusing on an Ackhurst Machinery offering of a Kent 14x40 which by the looks of things is about as sturdy and heavy a 14x40 that you can find, weight about 3600lbs. Similar to a Nardini that I owned once which had a dreadfull electrical system and was disposed of as a result. Anyway this Kent retails about the $16500 US dollars and by the time you do a collet chuck, DRO, taper attatchment and good toolpost etc you have spent another $5000 CDN. Can anyone chime in on the longevity of the Kent brand as I know they make larger machines at work in the jobber shops. Ackhurst also sells a lathe called a Cantek 14x40 which is considerably lighter in both weight and price tag. David Henry.
 
Im not 100% sure what makes a lathe a "gunsmith" version but I'd be looking for one that had repeatable measurements (not overly important I guess if you plan to run a DRO).
I know guys with chinese lathes (cheap ones for sure) that might dial in a 0.01 depth cut and it comes out at something completely different.
 
Mad_Mikee said:
Im not 100% sure what makes a lathe a "gunsmith" version but I'd be looking for one that had repeatable measurements (not overly important I guess if you plan to run a DRO).
I know guys with chinese lathes (cheap ones for sure) that might dial in a 0.01 depth cut and it comes out at something completely different.
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Accuracy is a requirement for any lathe as far as I am concerned.
Basic requirement for a gunsmithing lathe... swing is not important, 9, 10 or 11" is plenty, preferably a spindle hole of 1.375" with a short headstock... and a 4 foot bed. 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck, face plates, milling vise, tail stock chuck and live center. I use a rocker tool holder and I think it is nicer for gunsmithing than the machine shop turret holders. Variable speed is nice. It doesn't need to thread metric but is nice if it can... 240 volt single phase motor will hook up anywhere.
 
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Mad_Mikee said:
Im not 100% sure what makes a lathe a "gunsmith" version but I'd be looking for one that had repeatable measurements (not overly important I guess if you plan to run a DRO).
I know guys with chinese lathes (cheap ones for sure) that might dial in a 0.01 depth cut and it comes out at something completely different.
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In the Grizzly's case, it gets a built in set of screw holes for a cat head, on the outboard end of the spindle(something pretty basic to build for oneself if it's a need) and otherwise, it's just a name. So, marketing it to guys that don't really know any different.
It's working pretty well for them, and is a pretty decent pick by all accounts. But it's just a name, not a qualification to make it 'better' than any other for the job.

Cheers
Trev
 
David Henry said:
Some really good advise coming up on this thread, I have decided to purchase a new replacement lathe for my old American Logan 14x40 which has served me almost flawlessly for the last 25 years. The reason being I find that I run into more and more metric thread situations than I used to and the Logan is not equiped to cut metric.
I have looked at many offshore brands and have recently been focusing on an Ackhurst Machinery offering of a Kent 14x40 which by the looks of things is about as sturdy and heavy a 14x40 that you can find, weight about 3600lbs. Similar to a Nardini that I owned once which had a dreadfull electrical system and was disposed of as a result. Anyway this Kent retails about the $16500 US dollars and by the time you do a collet chuck, DRO, taper attatchment and good toolpost etc you have spent another $5000 CDN. Can anyone chime in on the longevity of the Kent brand as I know they make larger machines at work in the jobber shops. Ackhurst also sells a lathe called a Cantek 14x40 which is considerably lighter in both weight and price tag. David Henry.
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David, my understanding is that Kent imports from various sources and each model has to pretty much be looked at as an individual, rather than a Brand Name as a whole.

Have you looked at the Metric Transposing gears for your Logan? Not quite as convenient as a 'native' metric machine, but workable, and there are a couple different ways to get around the need to run the carriage back under power (because the half nuts should remain closed to keep the mesh correct). Somewhat of an inconvenience, but if you are still happy enough with the devil you know...

Logan is still supplying parts, and there are a couple good sources of used in the US. Plaza Machine Tools, in particular, I have dealt with, and been pleased in my dealings.

Cheers
Trev
 
Thanks for the info Trev, and yes I have googled the Logan name and looked at some of the options regarding what it would take to cut a metric pitch. I have long wanted a collet chuck system and a DRO, so maybe nows the time to step out and pick up something allready set up for metric. David.
 
Guntech's posts about the realities of a lathe for gunsmithing hits the nail dead on. Most lathe duty for a GUNSMITH is going to involve long and skinny things such as barrels. There's simply not a lot of large flat things in gunsmithing. So the center to center distance and the size of the through bore in the headstock really become primary factors.

Having said that the other large swing and larger clearance over the bed typically comes with a 40 or 48 inch C-C machine.

Caustic, you haven't mentioned what other tools you have or will need. But a couple have mentioned that a good drill press is needed. And sure enough a good drill press IS a very worthwhile companion to the lathe that you won't be able to do without.

As soon as possible after the lathe I would add on a metal cutting bandsaw and a milling machine. Likely the bandsaw before the milling machine.

This also very much pre-supposes that you have a GOOD SOLID bench with a good massive vise. Along with the bench and vise that you have a good array of good quality metal files and know how to wield them with good skill. Believe it or not the bandsaw in connection with the files can do a lot of quality "milling" well before you happen to buy a milling machine. It's more work and not as fast by a long shot. But between a drill press, metal bandsaw and files you can do a lot of very interesting work.

You'd also be surprised at the things you can do with a set of GOOD cold chisels and a large machinist's hammer along with that big heavy vise mounted to the massive immovable bench.
 
Put the money towards a used cnc lathe, you would not believe the money in turning even just basic stuff for companies
 
I have a 16x40 and while the 16 is not important the 40 sure is especially if you do a lot of target stuff with longer barrels. I would not buy from Grizzly or Busy Bee having had issues with both about quality and support. I bought from about the only machine tool supplier in Ottawa who is about three miles up the road. He delivered, put it in it's spot and levelled it with ultra accurate levels that I don't have.
 
Ian Robertson said:
I have a 16x40 and while the 16 is not important the 40 sure is especially if you do a lot of target stuff with longer barrels. I would not buy from Grizzly or Busy Bee having had issues with both about quality and support. I bought from about the only machine tool supplier in Ottawa who is about three miles up the road. He delivered, put it in it's spot and levelled it with ultra accurate levels that I don't have.
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what did you buy?
 
BCRider said:
Guntech's posts about the realities of a lathe for gunsmithing hits the nail dead on. Most lathe duty for a GUNSMITH is going to involve long and skinny things such as barrels. There's simply not a lot of large flat things in gunsmithing. So the center to center distance and the size of the through bore in the headstock really become primary factors.

Having said that the other large swing and larger clearance over the bed typically comes with a 40 or 48 inch C-C machine.

Caustic, you haven't mentioned what other tools you have or will need. But a couple have mentioned that a good drill press is needed. And sure enough a good drill press IS a very worthwhile companion to the lathe that you won't be able to do without.

As soon as possible after the lathe I would add on a metal cutting bandsaw and a milling machine. Likely the bandsaw before the milling machine.

This also very much pre-supposes that you have a GOOD SOLID bench with a good massive vise. Along with the bench and vise that you have a good array of good quality metal files and know how to wield them with good skill. Believe it or not the bandsaw in connection with the files can do a lot of quality "milling" well before you happen to buy a milling machine. It's more work and not as fast by a long shot. But between a drill press, metal bandsaw and files you can do a lot of very interesting work.

You'd also be surprised at the things you can do with a set of GOOD cold chisels and a large machinist's hammer along with that big heavy vise mounted to the massive immovable bench.
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all great points,

I have a shop kitted out for welding, stainless steel is mostly how I make my money. the only real items I'm missing are lathe and mill. I have welders of all kinds, metal cutting band saw , drill press, belt sanders , polishing tools etc...

I have access to shear, break and laser cutting through my old employer who allows me to use his equipment.
 
Micro Cut Challenger, made in TW. This is made by Buffalo Machine and looks identical to the "South Bend" that Grizzly sells but at many many thousands less.
 
wood800 said:
Put the money towards a used cnc lathe, you would not believe the money in turning even just basic stuff for companies
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If this is the case,

the next question is< on average what is the cost of a good used CNC machine?

as for business what kind of income are we talking about?
 
The problem with a CNC machine is that even a simple job becomes a major job. CNC is great for one offs from hunks of bar stock but it's not so great for performing a simple job on an existing part.

So if your thought is to make rifles from scratch then great, a CNC will do nicely given that you learn the CAD side and take the time to get the CAD computer to talk to the machine's computer correctly. But for little gunsmithing jobs on existing guns I'd suggest that CNC is more a hindrance than a help.
 
I use cnc for inlets and 3d and I tell you one offs on cnc are not for the faint of heart and certainly not for beginners. Like it is often said, best way to screw up a bunch of parts in a hurry is cnc, let alone a one off.
 
caustic said:
If this is the case,

the next question is< on average what is the cost of a good used CNC machine?

as for business what kind of income are we talking about?
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Prices and income capabilities are pretty much all over the place, and depend a LOT on what there is for local opportunity too.

I bought, for instance, a mid 90's vintage Milltronics knee mill for $1600. I got lucky. I have seen similar and better sell for a LOT more. Even after paying more than that to truck it home, I am in under the value of the component parts as spares.

Lathes, sorta that way too. I would not buy a CNC lathe with a hope to make money with it, unless the lathe was so cheap as to make it a no-brainer, or unless I had an opportunity smacking me upside the head to get my attention. Or, the best reason of all, because I just wanted too. :)

A CNC machine can be used in hand wheel or jog mode to do some manual work, but it's awkward and not very comfortable until you are very familiar with the particular machine. There is a distinct lack of 'feel' to doing work this way.

CNC has it's place. If you don't mind putting the time in to programming, and become comfortable with it, esp if using a CAD/CAM program with a decent visual simulator or cut path render feature, you can make very complicated parts the first time through.

Or you can wreck stuff at the push of a button. But once you get yourself sorted out, it becomes pretty easy to do those repeat jobs.

Check out the various machine tools sales sites around the web. Many many of them are simply trolling for contacts for the sales guys to work over, but some guys actually do list prices. If you live in the sticks and have no particular local industry, chances of stumbling upon a great bargain are pretty remote. Lots of machines for sale on Ebay too. Worth a look for the price of an education. Check out places like KBC Tools and Thomas Skinner, Knuth , and whoever else you run across.

Cheers
Trev
 
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