If you would shoot it with a bow why not a .243?

mudbug said:
Ignorance at it's greatest!!
I really like hunting and believe it is a totally differant hunt with a bow than with a rifle. Any fool can get within a couple hundred yard of an animal but it takes a good patient hunter to get one within bow range and make an ethical clean shot. Not one with trees or shrubs in the way, or in the ass or facing you, but a good broadside or slightly quartering away shot. To get this close you have to outsmart the animal in it's own element either by calls or rattling or whatever trick you can come up with. Also just so you know I have never hunted over a bait pile because to me, I think that is cheating.. (we all have our thing)
To me an ethical shot is within 50yrds and that is because i practice a couple times a week with my archery gear and shoot out to 60 yrds and somtimes farther for fun. We all have to set our limits as to how far we and our gear can be effective, just like how this thread got started. Know your and your equipments limits.
As far as why we archers deserve a bit more of a season is that it keeps the road warriors at home and lets the quiet hunters have a bit of peace in the bush. I myself have never seen a guy jump out of a truck with a bow and lean over the hood of the truck and take a shot at an animal running away. I have unfortunatly seen that more than I care to during rifle season.
Now after saying all this don't get me wrong I really like hunting ... I enjoy it from the start of Sept for archery, till Oct for muzzle loader, till Nov to the first week of Dec with my rifle. I rarely shoot anything becasue I want a monster and don't feel the need to shoot one just to kill. I love the hunt, especially archery season when it keeps people with limited hunting skills at home:eek:. just kidding:D
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While I agree that bow hunting requires more patience and discipline, there are as many undisciplined bow hunters as there are undisciplined rifle hunters. Both give their respective sports a bad name.
Careful though with the statement that bow hunting is more ethical and requires more hunting skill. It's a practice that is nearly nonexistent outside of North America and illegal in many countries.
 
Do they have long bow registries too??:p

bearkilr said:
While I agree that bow hunting requires more patience and discipline, there are as many undisciplined bow hunters as there are undisciplined rifle hunters. Both give their respective sports a bad name.
Careful though with the statement that bow hunting is more ethical and requires more hunting skill. It's a practice that is nearly nonexistent outside of North America and illegal in many countries.
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Kelly Timoffee said:
What if that moose was shot with a rifle?? The aggressor moose would have gave up??

Interesting theory in the least.
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The shot moose in all cases would of been killed instead of staggering
around with an arrow stuck out of him and the other moose attacking
at the same time.

Maybe we should start a new hunting season that allows pointed marbles
to be fired out of sling shots.
And allow a week season ahead of the string slings.......:p
 
mudbug said:
Ignorance at it's greatest!!
I really like hunting and believe it is a totally differant hunt with a bow than with a rifle. Any fool can get within a couple hundred yard of an animal but it takes a good patient hunter to get one within bow range and make an ethical clean shot. Not one with trees or shrubs in the way, or in the ass or facing you, but a good broadside or slightly quartering away shot. To get this close you have to outsmart the animal in it's own element either by calls or rattling or whatever trick you can come up with. Also just so you know I have never hunted over a bait pile because to me, I think that is cheating.. (we all have our thing)
To me an ethical shot is within 50yrds and that is because i practice a couple times a week with my archery gear and shoot out to 60 yrds and somtimes farther for fun. We all have to set our limits as to how far we and our gear can be effective, just like how this thread got started. Know your and your equipments limits.
As far as why we archers deserve a bit more of a season is that it keeps the road warriors at home and lets the quiet hunters have a bit of peace in the bush. I myself have never seen a guy jump out of a truck with a bow and lean over the hood of the truck and take a shot at an animal running away. I have unfortunatly seen that more than I care to during rifle season.
Now after saying all this don't get me wrong I really like hunting ... I enjoy it from the start of Sept for archery, till Oct for muzzle loader, till Nov to the first week of Dec with my rifle. I rarely shoot anything becasue I want a monster and don't feel the need to shoot one just to kill. I love the hunt, especially archery season when it keeps people with limited hunting skills at home:eek:. just kidding:D
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And your first sentence shows ignorancy at it's best.
Did you fire that or sling it?:p
 
mudbug said:
As far as why we archers deserve a bit more of a season is that it keeps the road warriors at home and lets the quiet hunters have a bit of peace in the bush.
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I've always thought this rationalization is funny. You want quiet time in the bush, but then talk about "road warriors." You wouldn't have to worry about "road warriors" if you got off the road! I hunt all GOS and only bump into other hunters when I get on to the road.:p

I myself have never seen a guy jump out of a truck with a bow and lean over the hood of the truck and take a shot at an animal running away.
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This happens in BC, with compound and crossbow hunters. Road hunting with bows.

But again, if you are off the road, using your ninja bowhunting skills, the rifle guys jumping out of the truck to shoot really dont' have an impact, anyway.
:p
 
Provided it was a kill shot and the other moose was finished fighting. ;)

My buddy shot a deer once that was sparing, dropped him immediatly, the other buck still proceeded to knock the crap out of the dead buck.Couldn't even scare him off by yelling at him.

This is hardly an arrow vs bullet scenario.

kamlooky said:
The shot moose in all cases would of been killed instead of staggering
around with an arrow stuck out of him and the other moose attacking
at the same time.

Maybe we should start a new hunting season that allows pointed marbles
to be fired out of sling shots.
And allow a week season ahead of the string slings.......:p
Click to expand...
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
Provided it was a kill shot and the other moose was finished fighting. ;)

My buddy shot a deer once that was sparing, dropped him immediatly, the other buck still proceeded to knock the crap out of the dead buck.Couldn't even scare him off by yelling at him.

This is hardly an arrow vs bullet scenario.
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I can understand this, but also the dead animal is dead.
Not sure if pain can still be felt when your dead.:p
I haven't experienced this yet....:cheers:
 
The 243 sure gets a lot of bad publicity, but in reality, it is superior to a 250 Savage, for big game. And I can't remember reading bad things about the 250. The Savage, often called the 250-3000, indicating it's velocity, is only with 87 grain bullets. The other choice, 100 grain, are in the 2800 range, while a good 243 will fire a 100 grain bullet at 3100 fps.
And please, don't tell me that wee bit of extra diameter on the Savage will ever be noticed in the field.
Over an awful lot of years, the 250 Savage earned a pretty good reputation on moose. A homesteader I knew raised quite a large family, over a twenty some year period, on moose shot with his 250-3000 Savage. I hunted with his son, while the son was using his dad's Savage. I asked the son what weight bullet he was using and he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Didn't know you could get different bullets. He said his dad would just ask for a box of 250-3000 shells.
Thus, many, if not most, of all those moose the dad shot, would have been shot with the 87 grain bullet, which were primarily developed for varmits, coyotes, etc.
Of course, I know that modern moose wouldn't die from such light artillary used on them.
 
I just checked out my 2:30 am post and realized I could have explained myself a bit better. I never meant for it to sound as though a bow hunt requires more skills and is more ethical. It's just a different hunt that in my mind is as worthy of a seperate season.
As far as the road hunting thing ..I see it on the roads going to and coming from work. I live in an area with alot of farm land and big bush. Heck I've driven out of my driveway only to have a vehical pass me and get out and try to shoot the deer in my field.
But by me throwing in my 2cents I have continued to send this thread in yet another direction... Sorry for that:)
 
H4831 said:
The 243 sure gets a lot of bad publicity, but in reality, it is superior to a 250 Savage, for big game. And I can't remember reading bad things about the 250. The Savage, often called the 250-3000, indicating it's velocity, is only with 87 grain bullets. The other choice, 100 grain, are in the 2800 range, while a good 243 will fire a 100 grain bullet at 3100 fps.
And please, don't tell me that wee bit of extra diameter on the Savage will ever be noticed in the field.
Over an awful lot of years, the 250 Savage earned a pretty good reputation on moose. A homesteader I knew raised quite a large family, over a twenty some year period, on moose shot with his 250-3000 Savage. I hunted with his son, while the son was using his dad's Savage. I asked the son what weight bullet he was using and he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Didn't know you could get different bullets. He said his dad would just ask for a box of 250-3000 shells.
Thus, many, if not most, of all those moose the dad shot, would have been shot with the 87 grain bullet, which were primarily developed for varmits, coyotes, etc.
Of course, I know that modern moose wouldn't die from such light artillary used on them.
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I did not realize why the 250-3000 savage was called such.
 
I just can't control myself. I gotta chime in.

How can you even compare the two?? A rifle and bow have two completely different modes of action and require considerably different approaches when hunting with them.

The intent (maybe unintentionally) of the original post seemed to implicate less than stellar effectiveness on the part of the archery equipment. What is going to kill a moose quicker a slug in the arse or a arrow in the boiler room?

I am a hardcore bowhunter. I just happen to like guns. Bang or Twang it just doesn't matter.

If you want to run around blasting game with sub .27 cal rifles have at it. If you are a good hunter and use decent equipment I know you should be able to take just about anything you would care to.

You just can't compare an arrow to a cartridge.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
Have you gone after and dangerous game with bow, not in N.Amerca?Just curious if folks are doing it or if you have seen hunters do it.
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Check out Bowhunter, August 2011

Pete Sheply: Bull Elephants and Brown Bears (note. 85 lb bow and 770 grain arrow for the elephant pretty much everyday tackle for the bear)

Tom Miranda: Polar Bear

If memory serves me right Fred Bear took quite a bit of dangerous game with a stick and string. Read the Wally Johnson biography by Capstick. He guided him and was impressed when Bear killed two different buffalo, both only requiring a single arrow. One was shot mid charge with Bear bailing out of a moving Jeep and sticking the critter at point blank range. Bear later collected a lion on the same hunt.

There is no way anyone would (or should ) do any of this without being backed up by a PH with a big gun. Archery gear is not the handicap many people think it is. It just requires different hunting methods.
 
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Would I use a .243 at rock throwing range, with the bullet of my choice, at a broadside or better unspooked animal during a special season/area where the law required that weapon and no other? Sure, in a heartbeat but that choice or option doesn't exist.

A real world choice would be "would you use a bow during a rifle season", and a few will answer yes to that.

Another choice would be "would I use a .243 when there is no reason not use something else?" With few exceptions I'll answer that "No".
 
I like my bow and I like my rifles.

The bow is just easier on my ears.;)

Dogleg said:
Would I use a .243 at rock throwing range, with the bullet of my choice, at a broadside or better unspooked animal during a special season/area where the law required that weapon and no other? Sure, in a heartbeat but that choice or option doesn't exist.

A real world choice would be "would you use a bow during a rifle season", and a few will answer yes to that.

Another choice would be "would I use a .243 when there is no reason not use something else?" With few exceptions I'll answer that "No".
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H4831 said:
The 243 sure gets a lot of bad publicity, but in reality, it is superior to a 250 Savage, for big game. And I can't remember reading bad things about the 250. The Savage, often called the 250-3000, indicating it's velocity, is only with 87 grain bullets. The other choice, 100 grain, are in the 2800 range, while a good 243 will fire a 100 grain bullet at 3100 fps.
And please, don't tell me that wee bit of extra diameter on the Savage will ever be noticed in the field.
Over an awful lot of years, the 250 Savage earned a pretty good reputation on moose. A homesteader I knew raised quite a large family, over a twenty some year period, on moose shot with his 250-3000 Savage. I hunted with his son, while the son was using his dad's Savage. I asked the son what weight bullet he was using and he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Didn't know you could get different bullets. He said his dad would just ask for a box of 250-3000 shells.
Thus, many, if not most, of all those moose the dad shot, would have been shot with the 87 grain bullet, which were primarily developed for varmits, coyotes, etc.
Of course, I know that modern moose wouldn't die from such light artillary used on them.
Click to expand...

Subsistence hunting and sport hunting are two very different things. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should or that its prudent to consider. Today there are as many hunters who are equally oblivious about bullet construction and weight for caliber. If they go up to the counter in a country store and asked for a box of .243 ammo they might get 100 gr stuff or they might get 75 gr. A guy I know here killed an exceptionally large moose with a .22-250 loaded with 55 gr Remington bulk bullets at 3200 fps; I know I loaded them to his recipe! That doesn't make a .22-250 or a .223 for that matter, a moose gun and a .22-250 has much more in common with a .243 than the .243 has in common with a .270, and some folks don't think a .270 is enough for moose.

But the original question was elk, and elk although a bit smaller, have a reputation of being tougher to kill than moose. The fellow we shared our African hunt with is a very serious elk hunter. He's hunted all over the world, but he enjoys elk hunting more than anything else. He started elk hunting with a .270 and had some successful kills, but now and then an elk would inexplicably wander off after being hit hard, so he switched to a .338 and never looked back. Again though, one can't draw comparisons between sport hunting and subsistence hunting.
 
Most of the really keen bowhunters I know dont' hang up the bow and grab a rifle when GOS opens. They will use the bow all season. There are also lots of seasons in BC where the open season is open season, no special weapons season, so if you want to bow hunt sheep, goat, moose, elk or grizzly in these areas, you will hunt during GOS. Bow seasons are mostly just for deer and black bear here, and are usually 10 days in early Sept and 10 days in December, although there are lots of other more localized seasons. :)
 
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