Ignacio Ugartechea - eibar - now with more pics.
- Thread starter Clobbersauras
- Start date
Clob, Help me out here. Where exactly were you insulted? You DID have to ask how to get the ejectors to work. Chances are really good that at least some of the Shotguns you have handled in the stores, have been exactly what you were looking for, and you (and the sales guy) did not know how to check. After all, as far as most of the counter gods are concerned, an extractor or ejector are pretty much the same thing. Myself, I side with the "don't cut". Nice shotguns, even those that have been let go a bit, are thin on the ground. That one, while not an English "Best" grade gun, is still of higher grade than average, and is a good candidate for a little remedial work in the basement this winter. Sandpaper is cheap, Rust bluing is not that difficult, and time spent with a nicely built bit of metal, is never wasted. My suggestion is that you put out the call for a trade or sale of that one to the guy that wants it and buy a shotgun that is of a grade that is quite suited to being made into a coach gun. Just seems a shame to me. Anyways, it's yours. You can do what you want. Go and read your first post, though. You asked! Cheers Trev
My goodness, what a lot of fuss!
Clobbersaurus, my apologies. My lament was intended for the gun, not its owner. For the record, I did not call you an idiot. Upon review of my post this sentence
Compared to the great masses of shotguns out there, hand built, nicely engraved sidelock shotguns built on the English pattern are reasonably rare. I rue the fact that many of them seem to end up with owners who do not care. As stated in my post, it is the previous owner(s) who allowed the state of deterioration to occur, not you. Still, my description of you implies yet another uncaring owner, and that is unfair - I don't know you.
My questions regarding the state of the bores, screws etc. were sincere, as these are the sorts of problems which are common among neglected SxS's. The photo seems to make the screws stand out, while intact screws should disappear into the engraving. The barrel rust is obvious in the picture and leads to the question about the condition of the bores and the locks. I am glad you took the time to answer those questions as it gives a better picture of the condition of the gun.
Your description reinforces my opinion that this is not the arm for a coach gun project. Since the damage to the gun seems to be external and cosmetic in nature, viable repair is possible. Rust bluing and stock refinishing would be worth it if this is the case. For what it is worth, the Grade IV (new and of comparable grade) Ugartechea sidelock as advertised in the U.S. sells for $2,700.00 on sale. As I said, these guns represent an awful lot of skilled, hand labour in their creation.
That is the problem with making a coach gun out of it. No matter where you go, gun nuts with an appreciation of hand built artistry will not see it as a neat coach gun, they will see it as a fine game gun that has had the barrels sawn off. You might not like the result either - those barrels are regulated, and by sawing them off the regulation will be gone. Who knows how the thing will shoot? The balance will be gone as well, and the gun will be butt heavy. There will be a hole between the ribs which will need to be filled, and the bead will have to be remounted. Neither operation is particularly easy to do correctly.
Apparently I am not the only one who thinks this way. The majority of respondents to your thread seem to agree that cutting the barrels is inadvisable. You asked about ruining the gun if it is worth more than you paid. Given your description of its condition I believe it is, or could be, worth three times or more your purchase price if properly refinished. By cutting the barrels you will be destroying any inherent value left in the gun.
Again, I am sorry if my previous post implied a personal insult. It was not intended as such. I feel more for the gun than I do for any of its owners, and I guess that makes me seem a little cold. The gun is your property and you may do with it as you wish - but you did ask for opinions, and I gave mine. I will strive to be more sensitive in my responses in the future.
Sharptail
Clobbersaurus, my apologies. My lament was intended for the gun, not its owner. For the record, I did not call you an idiot. Upon review of my post this sentence
seems insensitive. I regret wording it that way and sincerely apologize.
Compared to the great masses of shotguns out there, hand built, nicely engraved sidelock shotguns built on the English pattern are reasonably rare. I rue the fact that many of them seem to end up with owners who do not care. As stated in my post, it is the previous owner(s) who allowed the state of deterioration to occur, not you. Still, my description of you implies yet another uncaring owner, and that is unfair - I don't know you.
My questions regarding the state of the bores, screws etc. were sincere, as these are the sorts of problems which are common among neglected SxS's. The photo seems to make the screws stand out, while intact screws should disappear into the engraving. The barrel rust is obvious in the picture and leads to the question about the condition of the bores and the locks. I am glad you took the time to answer those questions as it gives a better picture of the condition of the gun.
Your description reinforces my opinion that this is not the arm for a coach gun project. Since the damage to the gun seems to be external and cosmetic in nature, viable repair is possible. Rust bluing and stock refinishing would be worth it if this is the case. For what it is worth, the Grade IV (new and of comparable grade) Ugartechea sidelock as advertised in the U.S. sells for $2,700.00 on sale. As I said, these guns represent an awful lot of skilled, hand labour in their creation.
That is the problem with making a coach gun out of it. No matter where you go, gun nuts with an appreciation of hand built artistry will not see it as a neat coach gun, they will see it as a fine game gun that has had the barrels sawn off. You might not like the result either - those barrels are regulated, and by sawing them off the regulation will be gone. Who knows how the thing will shoot? The balance will be gone as well, and the gun will be butt heavy. There will be a hole between the ribs which will need to be filled, and the bead will have to be remounted. Neither operation is particularly easy to do correctly.
Apparently I am not the only one who thinks this way. The majority of respondents to your thread seem to agree that cutting the barrels is inadvisable. You asked about ruining the gun if it is worth more than you paid. Given your description of its condition I believe it is, or could be, worth three times or more your purchase price if properly refinished. By cutting the barrels you will be destroying any inherent value left in the gun.
Again, I am sorry if my previous post implied a personal insult. It was not intended as such. I feel more for the gun than I do for any of its owners, and I guess that makes me seem a little cold. The gun is your property and you may do with it as you wish - but you did ask for opinions, and I gave mine. I will strive to be more sensitive in my responses in the future.
Sharptail
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Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Sharptail - I owe you an apology. I read the posts again and I did go off the deep end. I deserved the blasting I got - thanks guys! Even my buddy who read the post was giving me a hard time! Also I should have explained my position a little better. In my price range - $400 and under - I did have a tough time finding a SXS with ejectors. Now I have found one that is in very good working condition (or it appears so I haven't shot it yet) but it would almost be a sin to "coach" it. I don't compete in CAS , so this would just be a target blaster as per our stupid Canadian laws.
For shooting clays, as with upland hunting, you want the length in the barrels for a longer sighting plane and a smoother swing. You look down the barrels at the target as you point the gun. You don't aim. So, all the more reason to leave it whole. WTH, with the money you save, you can spruce up the finish on the barrels and have a nice gun.
Alls well that ends well.
Alls well that ends well.
SxS
Hi Clod.. I have to agree with sharptail,etc, I have over the years
cut a lot of old shot guns for the fellows in this area, But never one this good.
I just got a Spanish SxS 12g in with factory short barrels ( 24") ?
it is not up to what you have, and is only extractors, and finish and bores
are crap, but good for truck gun etc.
I was looking at that gun on the site, and you beat me to it.
As I tell my customers, it is you gun, BUT++++++
I hope you at least will go and shoot it for a while before you do anything.
As far as cleaning the wood up,that is not a big deal, thou I would try
to stay away from sand paper unless it has a lot of deep dings.
Better to use stripper and clean up the checkering and give it a few coats
of oil. I have cold blue these, but this gun needs better than that.
If you want to sell , pm. Where are you?
Marshall in Sask.
Hi Clod.. I have to agree with sharptail,etc, I have over the years
cut a lot of old shot guns for the fellows in this area, But never one this good.
I just got a Spanish SxS 12g in with factory short barrels ( 24") ?
it is not up to what you have, and is only extractors, and finish and bores
are crap, but good for truck gun etc.
I was looking at that gun on the site, and you beat me to it.
As I tell my customers, it is you gun, BUT++++++
I hope you at least will go and shoot it for a while before you do anything.
As far as cleaning the wood up,that is not a big deal, thou I would try
to stay away from sand paper unless it has a lot of deep dings.
Better to use stripper and clean up the checkering and give it a few coats
of oil. I have cold blue these, but this gun needs better than that.
If you want to sell , pm. Where are you?
Marshall in Sask.
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Before you do anything with this gun, check out Wieland's Spanish Best The Fine Shotguns of Spain book. See the people that built your gun, get a taste of their culture, drool over the photos of the high grade "Uggies".
I'd love to own one of these some day. Unfortunately, I think I missed the boat and the (new) guns have really gone up in price.
I'd love to own one of these some day. Unfortunately, I think I missed the boat and the (new) guns have really gone up in price.
Boxhead
CGN Regular
Not to derail the post but I have quite a few Uggies, all boxlocks, and they are well made guns that will last a couple of lifetimes if well cared for and well fed. The latter meaning that they are typically proofed for somethng less than your typical off the shelf shotgun shell. This may be of significance depending upon what a "coach gun" is to you. My favorite Uggis is this slug gun I that has proven quite accurate and effective on Texas hogs using the Rottweil Brenneke MP slug.
I too would leave your gun alone and go hunt it finding something else to use as your coach gun.
I too would leave your gun alone and go hunt it finding something else to use as your coach gun.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Ok - here's some pics - sorry for the bad quality and shot of my foot! I'm think this will give you all a better idea of the condition and an aproximate value? Oh yeah -please remember -I didn't do the damage - I just bought it and haven't cleaned it let....
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MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Spanish proof is in fact excellent, one of the best of any nation. There's a detailed thread over at shotgunworld.com explaining how they proof their guns in Eibar.
Uggies range from utilitarian boxlocks to "best" quality sidelocks. They certainly cannot be painted with the same brush, but I would contend that any sidelock Uggie like the one shown was (is) a very high quality gun.
Uggies range from utilitarian boxlocks to "best" quality sidelocks. They certainly cannot be painted with the same brush, but I would contend that any sidelock Uggie like the one shown was (is) a very high quality gun.
Damn, what a shame, an absolute shame. There is nothing there that couldn't be fixed but the cost of doing it right would most likely be well in excess of the value of the gun.
But it's not the worst I've seen. Here are pictures from a U.S. gun site that were posted a year ago. It's what happens when Bubba meets a London gun. It's a 10 guage W.&C. Scott and Son, barrel-marked "Castle St. Regent Circus, London"
(Special note to Sharptail, scrolling down to the third picture may induce nausea and ruin your day.)
But it's not the worst I've seen. Here are pictures from a U.S. gun site that were posted a year ago. It's what happens when Bubba meets a London gun. It's a 10 guage W.&C. Scott and Son, barrel-marked "Castle St. Regent Circus, London"
(Special note to Sharptail, scrolling down to the third picture may induce nausea and ruin your day.)
I don't see anything irrecoverable on that gun. The barrels need to be re-rust blued after some selective polishing, but that's it. Doesn't look too bad at all. Minor nicks in the wood is to be expected on an older shotgun, even a nice one.
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
That's a nice truck gun you have there.
Don't cut that shotgun, sell it or trade it if you don't want it. You can make yourself some money and buy something else..
Mausermike , is this what you call an Utilitarian Uggie boxlock?
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Don't cut that shotgun, sell it or trade it if you don't want it. You can make yourself some money and buy something else..
Mausermike , is this what you call an Utilitarian Uggie boxlock?
Ok - help me out here guys. I don't want to coach this gun. But I don't want to be out any cash and not see my coach gun project completed. If I were to sell it what price should I ask? Does someone want to "save" this gun? I feel I'd still give it a much better home than it had previous to my purchase, but if someone wants to restore this gun to it's former glory please contact me.
