Ignorant''purists''

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ratherbefishin

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I was in a gun store this week,looking for brass for my very nice Swiss K11,so I can shoot it.I bought it a year ago from a fellow gun nutz guy for about $100-and a set of dies.Why so cheap?-because somebody-not him, had drilled 4 holes in an attempt to mount a scope-ruining its ''value'' as a collector.Last I heard-while not socially acceptable-it did not affect the rifle as a ''shooter''-or its legendary accuracy-which is the REASON I bought it.
Anyway-when I mentioned the rifle had been drilled &tapped-the clerk made a disparaging comment about ''he wouln't give $50 for any ''bubba'd ''milsurp''.

Would I chop a military rifle today?-probably not,there's plenty of milsurp sporters around to buy pretty cheap -but I get great enjoyment out of refurbishing these old ''sporterized'' military rifles-and they seem to shoot just fine-and since I hunt-no game animal that dropped seemed to notice

Funny,I figure I was shooting my first bubba'd 303 when he was still in diapers-and I got to thinking-not much had changed....
 
Functionally there's nothing wrong with them, but the clerk is right. It's worth $50 to them so they sell it for $100 (which is what you paid.) It's a $300 rifle to a collecter when it is intact and original. I don't see anything ignorant in this. The rifle serves your purpose which is fine, but I personally dislike the alteration of rifles for a number of reasons - mainly being that you can get a better modern rifle for the same price or cheaper in a calibre that is easier and less costly to obtain than most milsurp. That being said, it's your gun do what you wish with it. It just makes my unaltered specimens more valuable when someone drills and taps or chops a stock.
 
I doubt the clerk has actually shot a firearm that would be considered a "milsurp" on this board.

Good on you for breathing life back into an old, forgotten, and abused milsurp.
 
I wasn't ASKING the clerk what HE thought the rifle was worth-and I wasn't ASKING his OPINION-I was just buying some brass and bullets so I could reload and SHOOT it.The truth is-I CAN'T shoot with open sights anymore-so if I want to shoot,I HAVE to use a scope-so when I got the chance to buy a very fine,accurate k11 that had ALREADY been drilled and tapped-with a set of dies-I jumped at the chance.I took it apart,sanded it down,stained and refinished it, and cleaned and polished up the metal work [looks nice,too!]and am looking for an older fixed power scope to mount on it-then I'm just going to enjoy shooting it...As I said-it had ALREADY lost its virginity....

HE ''volunteered'' his unasked opinion on ''bubba'd'' milsurps...I like the old Andy Capp comment''of course you are entitled to your opinion-I just don't want to hear it, thats all''.Why can't people recognise other people simply DON'T share their''purist''views?Not all of us are collectors-we just like to clean up,refurbish and shoot old rifles-and hey once a rifle has been altered-you can't unscramble eggs

as for comparing some of the ''new'' sporting rifles coming off the assembly line today-I'll put my old swede 6.5x55 ''sporters''up against them any day for fit and finish.
 
Different strokes for different folks. It is your rifle and the only one you have to please is YOU! There will always be asshats who will turn up their nose at others who don't neatly fit within their preconceived notions of "acceptable." I prefer my milsurps in as close to original condition as possible, however, I have a really nicely sporterized Lithgow No.1 MK III that my dad gave me for my birthday when I turned 21 that I cherish and still enjoy shooting and even take it hunting still despite having much more "proper" rifles.
 
I'm not sure where the "Ignorant" part of the header comes from.
Drilling holes in something like a '41 or '49 Long Branch would be stupid, something that a person ignorant of the value - and resulting devaluation - of these rifles would do.
 
tiriaq said:
I'm not sure where the "Ignorant" part of the header comes from.
Drilling holes in something like a '41 or '49 Long Branch would be stupid, something that a person ignorant of the value - and resulting devaluation - of these rifles would do.
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"Ignorant" here in Newfoundland (where we speak Newfoundland english :) ) actually means rude. I think that's what the OP meant.
 
If you don't want to hear someone's opinion about drilling milsurps, maybe don't talk to them about the fact that your milsurp is drilled. When you are buying brass.
If you bring the subject up, and you are horrified that the other person's opinion is not exactly the same as yours, that is your right.
But it is nobody's obligation to agree with you.
 
times have changed-but I wonder how many people today got their start by sporterizing an old military rifle?I wouldn't do it today,but see nothing to turn my nose up at and I'm not ashamed or embarrassed in the least to own,shoot, work on ,tinker with, talk about or enjoy my ''bubba'd'' milsurps.In fact if I can take something that someone else has messed up or butchered-and by sanding, staining, polishing,make it beautiful-so be it.

I figure it is the heigth of ignorance to look down on somebody elses efforts ,simply because I'm not into it-much like fly fisherman looking down on hardware fishermen,or archers turning up their nose at rifle hunters-same game,diferent name.Its kind of funny-look at all the ''aftermarket'' parts and modifications for the SKS-and nobody seems to look down on that.My guns aren't wallhangers-but if somebody wants to be a ''collector''rather than a ''shooter''-so be it
 
You definately cant tell someone else what their opinion shouldt be, and if you dont like it, thats your problem. BUT i do see your point. If I came accross someone with a D &T but otherwise nice rifle, I would probably just comment on the fact that it looks nice, accurate, etc. Leaving the non collector status out of it.
As Im sure most people, like the OP, realized it was D & T and no longer a collector piece.
But to tell someone thier rifle is junk, $50 etc is rude.
 
Seeing how it was already drilled and tapped - scope the bugger! If it is more practical and enjoyable for YOU then go for it. The "damage" has been done already, might as well make practical use of the "damage". Im all for keeping bubba as far away as possible, but what has been done has been done.
 
I'm sort of halfway between the camps here, being a believer that God made Red Loctite and plug screws and tiny files for a reason.

It doesn't bother me if someone has D&T'd a rifle, just so long as the job was done RIGHT.

What gets my goat is when they start lopping off pieces of wood and throwing it away, then grinding down the ears on a low-serial P-'14.:eek:

I have two lovely little Mousers here (Kar-71) which have survived the unwelcome attentions of a couple of clowns. If they still were living, I could cheerfully :pirate:WOOLD either one. The STRAPPADO awaits he who chopped my Finnish 1891 Dragoon Rifle.... and I'm reserving the Hot Rat Cage for the ones who chopped my beautiful 1889 Schmitt-Rubins!

But I don't see a properly-done D&T job as wrecking a rifle, althoughI DO prefer no-gunsmithing mounts for scoping my own. It's just that good, over-the-receiver no-gunsmithing mounts aren't available for everything.... so I keep plug-screws available.

My eyes, also, are not what once they were, although I am still young enough to enjoy a quiet afternoon on the range.... just me and a couple of my Ladies and a box or two of shells.
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Amen to that Smellie.While a lot of guys discard old Bubba'd Milsurps to the trash bin I enjoy taking something that's been abused and bringing it back to some of it's former glory.My latest project is a 1917 no.1mk.3*with a horribly Bubba'd wood set and missing all the metal bits including the mag, bolt and rear sight.A trip to my gunsmith to remove a roll pin that had been mashed into the front sight base so bad that I ruined 3 punches trying to get it out .Another to check the head-space and get a couple of missing pieces.Orders from Tradex,Numrich,Elwood Epps and a fellow in the UK.The result $685.00 later, I now have a 94 year old milsurp that shoots amazingly tight groups in it's original configuration.Was it worth it? You bet,because I can bug my 94 year old Father in law that I probably have his old rifle from the war and unlike him you can still get parts for it.Just joking on that last part,actually he can hardly wait to get to the range and give it a whirl.You got to love the old Vets their the salt of the world.
 
I consider my 'sporterized' 1914 BSA No1MkIII with semi-failed home made checkering and cheezy woodburning of a moose and deer to be the most Canadian rifle I own. Even more Canadian than my full wood Long Branch No4Mk1 or Cooey 84. It's the gun equivalent of Kraft Dinner cooked by Don Cherry.

It saw WWI, then was surplussed for probably something like 25 bucks and then sporterized by someone who is probably dead by now and 'decorated' by his wife. It killed deer and moose decades before I was born.

Then I bought it for $90 and developped a horrible flinch with it, because it was my first full size caliber rifle. But that's another story.

Good thing is it's just not worth the trouble of selling it, so I'm likely to keep it for a while.
 
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I suggest that you try to grow thicker skin, and realize that there will be people whose opinion differs from yours and might not like everything you like, and might not even share your dislikes. That is no reason to be offended.

More specifically, if you were seeking sympathy, I have to wonder what you expected when you brought this up on the "Milsurp" forum. Your gun is damaged beyond repair as a collector piece, and its value reflects that. As a shooter, well, if it shoots well then it's a good shooter, but from a collector's point of view, it's no more than a possible parts source. I have many guns like yours, one of which I hunt with, but I am at peace with what they are (and aren't), and certainly don't trot them out here and expect compliments.
 
Yeah the clerk was rude. You wouldna happened to have asked him, 'Who asked you, f@ckwad?', in a friendly tone of course.

Unsolicited judgement from someone who feels entitled to give it because they're standing on that side of the counter. Sorry about that, hope you get a second chance to set him straight.
 
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Kayser Sose said:
Yeah the clerk was rude. You wouldna happened to have asked him, 'Who asked you, f@ckwad?', in a friendly tone of course.

Unsolicited judgement from someone who feels entitled to give it because they're standing on that side of the counter. Sorry about that, hope you get a second chance to set him straight.
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Good advice. The question of butcthered military rifle is a hot one on ALL the military gun forums. Many people lose sight of the fact that years ago, when most of this home gunsmithing occurred, these rifles were cheap, widely available and the most economical way for someone with limited means to get a hunting rifle. A friend of mine has an absolutely pristine 1871 Mauser carbine, all except for the fact that years ago someone filed the protective ears off the front sight, a real heartbreaker.
 
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