Ignorant''purists''

ratherbefishin said:
I was in a gun store this week,looking for brass for my very nice Swiss K11,so I can shoot it.I bought it a year ago from a fellow gun nutz guy for about $100-and a set of dies.Why so cheap?-because somebody-not him, had drilled 4 holes in an attempt to mount a scope-ruining its ''value'' as a collector.Last I heard-while not socially acceptable-it did not affect the rifle as a ''shooter''-or its legendary accuracy-which is the REASON I bought it.
Anyway-when I mentioned the rifle had been drilled &tapped-the clerk made a disparaging comment about ''he wouln't give $50 for any ''bubba'd ''milsurp''.

Would I chop a military rifle today?-probably not,there's plenty of milsurp sporters around to buy pretty cheap -but I get great enjoyment out of refurbishing these old ''sporterized'' military rifles-and they seem to shoot just fine-and since I hunt-no game animal that dropped seemed to notice

Funny,I figure I was shooting my first bubba'd 303 when he was still in diapers-and I got to thinking-not much had changed....
Click to expand...

I would have told him that with an attitude like his I wouldn't sell him a gun if he offered me TWICE what it was worth!
I shoot my guns I don't collect them, have some factory MILSURPS, but could care less if they are factory or not - I have a couple that were sporterized as well, big deal, it's niot the end of the world ....
Cat
 
I don't happen to like modern semi automatic ''black rifles''but I don't offer my unsolicited opinions to people who DO own them.Some people are collectors and thats just fine with me,I happen to like to shoot my rifles.The FACT is, if you want to SHOOT a milsurp-then the best value is to look for one that has been drilled and tapped,because they can be obtained for a fraction of the price of an untouched one.Course, I do see this as a bit rediculous because in times of war-snipers would choose a SCOPED military rifle over regular battle sights anyday-they wouldn't turn their nose up at altering their rifle if it meant making a better shot.I'm not looking for ''sympathy'',I'm just saying educated people respect others peoples tastes and don't parrot whatever opinon happens to be the flavour of the month.

I suppose some people wouldn't own a Danish rolling block that was ''bubba'd '' by rebarreling it to 8x56,to me it would be a prize-if it was in good shape and shootable[I missed the last batch Anthony had at Tradeex]To each their own....we're ALL gun owners and we EACH have reasons we buy guns,some of us are collectors and some of us are shooters,some of us are hunters who are happy to hit a 4'' circle at 100 yards,and some are target shooters and would sell any rifle that couldn't.
 
I've got an an original configured M-39 VTK that's D & T. Legend has it that they were 'sploding milk jugs of H2O at past 500 paces in the NV desert with it.
In the same pallet I recieved a pristine 6.5 X 55 swede...which due to the limitations of it's iron sights; probably can't keep up with the VTK.
It seems as though the purists are more aggressive and vocal about these things...each to their own I suppose.
Clerk should have minded his mouth IMO
 
Andy said:
I suggest that you try to grow thicker skin, and realize that there will be people whose opinion differs from yours and might not like everything you like, and might not even share your dislikes. That is no reason to be offended.
Click to expand...

I don't know about you, but if I ran a gun store, I wouldn't set up a business model on that statement... unless of course I wanted to go out of business.

Clerk should have kept his mouth shut.
 
I would no more think of going into a gun store and begin mouthing off about the reasons why I choose not to own''black rifles'' anymore than I would state hardware fisherman were inferior to fly fishermen, or worm dunkers.I shoot a bow,have a black powder rifle and I enjoy getting out in the woods.But is one more ''ethical'' or ''purist'' than the other?-not a chance-its just what people happen to like or don't like and in my opinion is the heighth of ignorance to state otherwise.
 
ratherbefishin said:
snip... I'm just saying educated people respect others peoples tastes and don't parrot whatever opinion happens to be the flavour of the month. ...snip
Click to expand...

^ this, many many times.

Still stuck on, 'who asked the little twerp?' How old was this guy? ...not looking to start a flamin' here, I just find it interesting to note that even 'Saintly' I was once a loudmouth young man, who's at least 'seasoned' a little bit, I'd like to think, and then I also meet loudmouth Elders who have their heads up their patootie. That's all.
 
Last edited:
ratherbefishin said:
...Why can't people recognise other people simply DON'T share their''purist''views?Not all of us are collectors-we just like to clean up,refurbish and shoot old rifles-and hey once a rifle has been altered-you can't unscramble eggs
Click to expand...

I agree completely. If it is a "common" milsurp, there are tons of things I'd like to do to them, and if it's been partially hacked, well why not frankengun it up?
 
ratherbefishin said:
I would no more think of going into a gun store and begin mouthing off about the reasons why I choose not to own''black rifles'' anymore than I would state hardware fisherman were inferior to fly fishermen, or worm dunkers.I shoot a bow,have a black powder rifle and I enjoy getting out in the woods.But is one more ''ethical'' or ''purist'' than the other?-not a chance-its just what people happen to like or don't like and in my opinion is the heighth of ignorance to state otherwise.
Click to expand...

Whenever I visit a gunshop it seems there is always some guy hanging around wanting to share his "expertise" with everyone. And 30 seconds after he begins talking you realize he hasn't a clue about anything.
 
''bubba'd '' milsurps are a great way for a new guy to get into the shooting sports-you can pick up a ''sporterized'' lee enfield for about $100 -or a Parker Hale for $250 and you're good to go hunting.I happen to like ''sporterized'' swedes-tradeex specializes in them and for under $250 you can get a beautiful old M96,walnut stock,bases on it in''excellent'' condition[Anthony doesn't lie] and for another $150 get a nice M-8 Leupold-total cost around $400.

Nothing to turn your nose up at-or apologise for,and I for one refuse to pretend I don't like ''bubba'd''old milsurps,in fact I LOOK for them-the best value there is in rifles .There's collectors and there's shooters and one isn't any higher up the feeding chain than the other.
 
Absolutely, there are plenty of milsurps around that have already been "modified". So there is no need to chop up originals. Should keep shooters and collectors happy.
 
Most milsurps were ''sporterized'' for purely economic reasons-not because somebody deliberately wanted to destroy a fine piece of history.Today ,nobody in their right mind would pay $300-$400 for the same untouched milsurp which would likely increase in value when they could get the same rifle already chopped for a fraction of that if they wanted a ''sporter''.But if you already own a ''bubba'd ''milsurp or want to buy one and turn it into a fine sporting rifle or just a shooter ,I see no reason to be ashamed of it, hide it,or talk about it.I get a great deal of pleasure out of refurbishing old milsurps that somebody else chopped,and I'm getting a little tired of hearing disparaging comments and ''bubba'd'' in relation to EVERY modified mildurp.If it ain't broke don't fix it but if it is broke-then at least try to make it look better.

Funny-I had a very nice Ruger no1 .270 that I carried on NICE days-but all the deer I shot were with my ''bubba'd ''milsurp swede on miserable rainy days ....so there definitely IS a place for them in every hunters gun cabinet.They aren't collectors,but they sure shoot fine!
 
@fishin': and here you have struck on an essential truth. Military rifles were built TOUGH, and that includes all of them, even though the Lee-Enfields seem to be tougher than the others. They were BUILT to take abuse and punishment under battlefield conditions, often in the hands of illiterate or untrained troopies.

This is something that we seem to have gotten away from. Look at the troubles they are having with those black plastic poodle-shooters in Afghanistan and Iraq.... and listen for the screams for the old M-14, which was scrapped back when most of today's troopies weren't even born. The 14 isn't my favourite rifle by any means.... but it WORKS when you want it to. I wonder how the current crop of high-tech gopher-guns would have stood a place like Passchendaele. Remember, that was the place where they drowned TANKS in the mud.... along with an uncle I never met.... and a lot of good men.

There will be Lee-Enfields and Moisin-Nagants out there, blasting Bambis, long after the high-tech jobbies all have succumbed to sweat-corrosion just from being handled in hot weather. Look at media photos from combat zones carefully, especially from so-called 'liberation' movements. Look for M-16s with a 2-inch hole drilled through the mag housing: sweat corrosion from 'Nam on rifles the US left there, refurbed and handed out by our Commie friends to anyone who wants to make trouble in South or Central America... or just about anywhere else. Standard 'fix'.

Just my 3 cents' worth (inflation, you know!).
.
 
BAH! Loctite some steel screws in the holes and dress them off with a file, re blue, and that ignorant p%@($ probably wouldn't even know that your shooter is bubba "junk" :)
 
I would-except I HAVE to use a scope if I want to shoot it,and getting a fine rifle for a fraction of the price, already drilled and tapped was a bonus...funny thing is-the snipers didn't seem to have any qualms about attaching scopes to their rifles....

I have a nice ''bubba'd '' P-14,but I won't be cutting any bits off,or milling the ears-because if someone wanted they could put it back to military configuration by replacing the sporter stock with a military stock.

But I do have a question for the purists-don't you think that owning a ''bubba'd'' milsurp as a shooter just might save the pristine milsurp for a collector?

and YES,I have wondered about the quality of bluing on the older milsurps vs some of the modern day offering-the older ones seem to stand up to more use and abuse
 
smellie said:
Military rifles were built TOUGH, and that includes all of them, even though the Lee-Enfields seem to be tougher than the others.
Click to expand...

Well, I'll not disagree with the fact of it; all old military guns are beyond tough and the old bolties especially, but... a Mosin will out-tough an Enfield. The design is simpler, thus tougher. It's pointless to really argue over it though; both has been to hell and back, side-by-side.

There hasn't been a battlefield that either couldn't handle, barring the sunny side of Mercury.
 
Some of us have been blessed by bubba ............ hell, some of us ARE bubba.
'Tis the lucky man who finds his lifelong companion rifle, the one that satisfies from youth to old age.

Way way back, when dirt cheap Swedes were everywhere, this poor enthusiast picked one up and started building, bit by bit, as scarce cash allowed. Shot the hell out of it, and learned a lot. And apprecaited every hard won bit or mod that made it work better. The process has never ended, am still at it to this day.
That same rifle is now the most capable and accurate gun I've ever fired, bar none. Dozens of shooters have touched holes on their first try with it, sometimes past 200 yards believe it or not. Consistent sub 1/2 moa with its new tradex barrel installed.

Could care less if a purist disses me, he's never had as much pure joy with just one gun as I have. Never revelled in the shooting abilities taught by that old, made in 1911, piece of pure gold. That I built up myself, for myself.

There are quite a few pristeen original milsurps in the safe. Would I ever touch 'em?, No way, they stay just as they are. Do they form a binding relationship?, or get used?, no.
They are worth their collectors value to me.

Offer me $3000.oo for the Bubba?, sorry, she's not for sale.
 
Sardaukar said:
I consider my 'sporterized' 1914 BSA No1MkIII with semi-failed home made checkering and cheezy woodburning of a moose and deer to be the most Canadian rifle I own. Even more Canadian than my full wood Long Branch No4Mk1 or Cooey 84. It's the gun equivalent of Kraft Dinner cooked by Don Cherry.

It saw WWI, then was surplussed for probably something like 25 bucks and then sporterized by someone who is probably dead by now and 'decorated' by his wife. It killed deer and moose decades before I was born.

Then I bought it for $90 and developped a horrible flinch with it, because it was my first full size caliber rifle. But that's another story.

Good thing is it's just not worth the trouble of selling it, so I'm likely to keep it for a while.
Click to expand...


That Sir is a piece of Folk Art...call Scott and Sheldon from Canadian Pickers. :D
 
I have my grandfathers hunting rifle now. It is a Lee Enfield carbine dated 1896, the front sight is original but the stock is shortened with a schnaubel forend, flat top checkering,sling swivels, stock disc filled in and recoil pad. Rear sight is long gone, replaced by a Lyman aperture sight. Not a candidate for restoration, it is what it is. Around 6 1/2 pounds, well balanced, easy to carry(with 5 round mag), a great woods rifle with the fastest Lee Enfield safety, I think. Almost identical in weight and length to a 94 carbine with considerably more wallop.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom