I'm a soldier buying my first rifle. (advice from XCR owners please)

What a joke it is that we need to pay the CFO to process someone in our countries militaries firearms applications, you would hope that if he meets the militaries standards he would surpass the CFO's.

You want the real joke, consider that Canada's finest, en route to Afghanistan on a CF airplane from a private terminal, have to get patted down to make sure they aren't carrying a nail file or a bottle of Pepsi. Kafka couldn't have pulled it off with a straight face.

f:P:
 
Originally Posted by 10mmauto
What a joke it is that we need to pay the CFO to process someone in our countries militaries firearms applications, you would hope that if he meets the militaries standards he would surpass the CFO's.

The CF trains to a standard on a small number of weapons in very limited calibers.

If you think a pump shotgun is idiot proof I can find you a better idiot.
 
I will have to agree with the above post. Also, military use of firearms is VERY different to what is allowed at a civilian range. Some words of command are also slightly different. I fully support civilian licensing of ANYONE who wants to buy a firearm (just not the registry B.S. that comes after)- it just helps to prevent confusion and accidents later on.
 
To say we train with a small number is weapons is unfair, I'm proficient with and qualified to instruct: C7 (5.56 rifle), C8 (5.56 carbine), C9 (5.56 light machine gun), C6 (7.62 machine gun), 50cal machine gun, pump action shot gun, 9mm pistol, m203 40mm grenade launcher, 60mm mortar, 84mm rocket launcher.

On the caliber issue, perhaps there are few different calibers for the rifles/mg's, but the soldiers have a solid understanding of how different weapons work. For example, the C7 and C9 both shoot 5.56, but the C7 is DI and the C9 is piston based.

I just wish there was a shortened mil-civ conversion option.
 
You want the real joke, consider that Canada's finest, en route to Afghanistan on a CF airplane from a private terminal, have to get patted down to make sure they aren't carrying a nail file or a bottle of Pepsi. Kafka couldn't have pulled it off with a straight face.

f:P:

That's so phuckin' stupid I have trouble believing even the Goobermint could come up with that. OMFG!!! Bureaucratic idiocy strikes again!!!:jerkit:
 
I'm proficient with and qualified to instruct: C7 (5.56 rifle), C8 (5.56 carbine), C9 (5.56 light machine gun), C6 (7.62 machine gun), 50cal machine gun, pump action shot gun, 9mm pistol, m203 40mm grenade launcher, 60mm mortar, 84mm rocket launcher.

But your having to take an expensive course to learn how to handle a single-shot gopher rifle safely will help prevent gang violence in Winnipeg! Try to keep some perspective, OK?

:bangHead:
 
To say we train with a small number is weapons is unfair, I'm proficient with and qualified to instruct: C7 (5.56 rifle), C8 (5.56 carbine), C9 (5.56 light machine gun), C6 (7.62 machine gun), 50cal machine gun, pump action shot gun, 9mm pistol, m203 40mm grenade launcher, 60mm mortar, 84mm rocket launcher.

On the caliber issue, perhaps there are few different calibers for the rifles/mg's, but the soldiers have a solid understanding of how different weapons work. For example, the C7 and C9 both shoot 5.56, but the C7 is DI and the C9 is piston based.


As am I, but of all of those things only 3 of them are available in the civilian world: the shotgun, the semi-auto pistol, and the semi-auto rifle (C7 and C8 being the same thing). A basic understanding doesn't mean anything when you have to use a single action revolver. I know several people who have gotten a PAL after several years in the military, and were surprised at how little they knew. Just changing some things on the course for a "conversion" now makes another standard, and wastes time and money. The army teaches you to "put issued bullet only in issued rifle". You can't get it wrong. In the civilian shooting world there are lots of different things that can go wrong. I also disagree that soldiers have a "good understanding" of how their weapons function. We teach weapons DRILLS, not "understandings". I'm not trying to be rude, but I am continually surprised at how many soldiers know so little about their weapons systems. This is the "put up your hand and ask for range staff" syndrome.

And I will add that MOST of the CF is not qualified or experienced on all of those weapons systems, and have only done basic training and a once or twice a year practice with their service rifle or pistol. I think it's a good thing that the government says "hey, before you can buy ANY firearm you want- you need to know how to handle most of them- to a reasonable standard".
 
I like most soldiers have never fired a revolver, rimfire or lever gun with the Army and most will never fire a bolt action. So most soldiers have no training on the majority of the firearms in Canada.

The army has never told me not to put pointed bullets in a tube mag, or the difference between 2 3/4" and 3" shells (or that 20ga exists).

There is a training Delta.



On a side note the bolt on the C7/AR15/M16 is the piston.
 
On a side note the bolt on the C7/AR15/M16 is the piston.

No, it is not a piston. The the C7/C8/AR are DI (Direct Impingement), meaning that the hot gasses and pressure travel back up the gas tube and directly into the bolt forcing it back. A piston is basically an extension on which the bolt rides or sits , as on the C6 and C9. This extension alone is what is hit by the gasses and is pushed back, the bolt moves because it is attached to the piston. There is no "direct" fowling, which means it is not DI.
 
No, it is not a piston. The the C7/C8/AR are DI (Direct Impingement), meaning that the hot gasses and pressure travel back up the gas tube and directly into the bolt forcing it back. A piston is basically an extension on which the bolt rides or sits , as on the C6 and C9. This extension alone is what is hit by the gasses and is pushed back, the bolt moves because it is attached to the piston. There is no "direct" fowling, which means it is not DI.

Through the gas tube into the gas key and into the "bolt carrier" which forms the cylinder. The gas then impinges on the tail of the bolt (the piston)which is sealed with gas rings. This causes the carrier to move to the rear as the bolt can not go forward. The rearward motion of the carrier unlocks the bolt and the momentum of the carrier carries the bolt and carrier to the rear where it is stopped by the buffer. It is then returned to battery by the compressed action spring.

It is direct because there is no piston rod/ op rod and the gas directly impinges on the bolt and carrier. Impinge means to collide with or strike, it has nothing to do with fouling.
 
It was an attempt at an over simplified explanation. (and I spelled "fouling" wrong) Your details are correct, but there is still no "piston" in an AR unless it is a "piston" AR. "Like" a piston is not a piston, ALL self loading firearms have parts that are "like" a piston.
 
canadiangunuser, I see what you mean about the PAL testing.

I'll take the course rather than challenge. I'm just finding myself frustrated because it's going to take 2 days and I feel I could learn it allot quicker than that.

Time to just suck it up and get it over with.
 
Then why does the bolt have gas rings and what does it act as? an inclined plane? It uses gas pressure and flow so it must have a piston or a turbine to harness that energy. No turbine so play find the piston.

When you see it you will go damn that is simple, Mr Stoner was a genius.
 
To say we train with a small number is weapons is unfair, I'm proficient with and qualified to instruct: C7 (5.56 rifle), C8 (5.56 carbine), C9 (5.56 light machine gun), C6 (7.62 machine gun), 50cal machine gun, pump action shot gun, 9mm pistol, m203 40mm grenade launcher, 60mm mortar, 84mm rocket launcher.

On the caliber issue, perhaps there are few different calibers for the rifles/mg's, but the soldiers have a solid understanding of how different weapons work. For example, the C7 and C9 both shoot 5.56, but the C7 is DI and the C9 is piston based.


As am I, but of all of those things only 3 of them are available in the civilian world: the shotgun, the semi-auto pistol, and the semi-auto rifle (C7 and C8 being the same thing). A basic understanding doesn't mean anything when you have to use a single action revolver. I know several people who have gotten a PAL after several years in the military, and were surprised at how little they knew. Just changing some things on the course for a "conversion" now makes another standard, and wastes time and money. The army teaches you to "put issued bullet only in issued rifle". You can't get it wrong. In the civilian shooting world there are lots of different things that can go wrong. I also disagree that soldiers have a "good understanding" of how their weapons function. We teach weapons DRILLS, not "understandings". I'm not trying to be rude, but I am continually surprised at how many soldiers know so little about their weapons systems. This is the "put up your hand and ask for range staff" syndrome.

And I will add that MOST of the CF is not qualified or experienced on all of those weapons systems, and have only done basic training and a once or twice a year practice with their service rifle or pistol. I think it's a good thing that the government says "hey, before you can buy ANY firearm you want- you need to know how to handle most of them- to a reasonable standard".

+1

I spent 15yrs in total in the military and I have no problems in admitting I'm a bit of a novice in the civilian world of firearms.
 
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