I'm at it again

bearhunter338-06 said:
What do you think about these calibers:
25-06
25-06 AI
6.5-06
6.5-06 AI
280 Rem.
280 Rem AI.
30-06
30-06 AI

What are the pros and cons. of these calibers.
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Pros: - They'll all do the same thing, same class. You're thinking about it too much...:p

Cons - fireforming the AI's...
 
blargon said:
Pros: - They'll all do the same thing, same class. You're thinking about it too much...:p

Cons - fireforming the AI's...
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:agree:
:D

They'll all do the same thing, same class. You're thinking about it too much...:p
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CORRECT !

I tend to stick with the "ubiquitous 30's" for all of my North American hunting.

The "ubiquitous 30's" are the .30-30 Win., .303BR, .30-06 Spr., .308 Win., .300 Win. Mag. ...................the standard "one rifle in the closet" Fudd calibers.

It seems it doesn't matter what dilapidated, ramshackle ghost town you are in the local hardware will usually have a box of "shells" kicking around for the above mentioned calibers.

Try finding ammo for the 7mm-08 in Ear Falls, Manitouwadge, Moose Factory or Swastika in Northern Ontario or Thompson, Lynn Lake or Snow Lake, Manitoba.

I long ago abandoned the idea of the fad, miracle, revolutionary cartridges that were going to set the world on fire like the .444 Marlin, 7mm-08, the .25-06, that appear on the market for a couple of years & then disappear & are impossible to get factory ammo & cases for.

I have several rifles in each of the "ubiquitous .30" calibers.

As long as we have guns & the freedom to own & use them I will always be able to get ammo for my "ubiquitous .30" caliber firearms.
 
Pros... Some of those calibers ARE available in most sporting good stores...

Cons... Some of those calibers ARE NOT...

I know there is something "###y" about unique cartridges, BUT, should you ever find yourself looking for them... You'd be SOL... I picture the scenario where you go on a guided hunt, one of your bags is lost & you end up shooting that beautiful big game animal with your guides 303...

Cheers
Jay
 
I long ago abandoned the idea of the fad, miracle, revolutionary cartridges that were going to set the world on fire like the .444 Marlin, 7mm-08, the .25-06, that appear on the market for a couple of years & then disappear & are impossible to get factory ammo & cases for
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I beg to differ, the 2506 was made in the 1930's, brass and ammo are still readily available for all 3 of these calibers. If anything is a passing fad it is these short action magnums that do the same job as there long action counter oparts with a similar bullet weight and powder charge. The only gain with these is negated if the manufacturers dont make a shorter stiffer(more acurate) action to suit these rounds.
With the exception of the 6.506 which is not yet a sammi standard the rest of those calibers are readily available and regular ammo can be fired in any of the Ackley chamberings. I had a 3006 AI and was quite satisfied with is, currently own a 2506 and would chamer it to AI if I had a reamer available. The 6.5 06 is a very ineresting chamer and the AI would only be better.
There is no such thing as a do all end all rifle, the 3006 is the closest you will get but does not do all of the jobs intended with the same zing as some of the custom chamberings, so if you want to fill a certain niche and are willing to experiment, more power to you, you will get a great deal of satisfaction out of playing with these rounds and have something the non reloading regular hunters could never dream of.
Also if people did not have a desire to experiment and try new and different things we would still be shooting lead bullets from front stuffing guns.

As far as pro's and cons, AI chamerings provide around 3-7% increase in velocity, reduced bolt thrust, and eliminate the need to trim in most cases. Reguler rounds may be fired in Ackley chambers and some of your best shooting will be groups fired while fireforming these cases. The 6.5 bullet is usually carries a high bc and is good to long ranges. Slight to severe reduction in barrel life to due increase powder consumption is one of the cons, the second in my opinion is the need to buy a reamer if you can't find a smith that has one.

Andy
 
You missed the best one of the bunch, the 270Win. The 280 would be a very close second, only because 270 ammo is easier to come by.




.
 
When I see anything AI I think "pain in the ass"......Just my opinion, Im sure many on here will disagree . I personally think a little case taper cant be a bad thing as far as feeding a hunting rifle.

Out of all those the one I would be attracted to would be 6.5-06......Should of been a factory chambering...6.5 has had a hard time catching on in North America.
 
Pathfinder said:
When I see anything AI I think "pain in the ass"......Just my opinion, Im sure many on here will disagree . I personally think a little case taper cant be a bad thing as far as feeding a hunting rifle.

Out of all those the one I would be attracted to would be 6.5-06......Should of been a factory chambering...6.5 has had a hard time catching on in North America.
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Don't forget the 280 AI has brass available and ammo soon too. 6.5/06 will soon be a Cooper factory chambering.
 
:agree: AI's seems like too much hassle [rechambering, fireforming] for not much improvement.
All those listed will do nearly the same thing. I wouldn't feel comfortable using a 25/06 on an elk or moose hunt. Many here would, though. 6.5/06 seems really cool, but wouldn't really accomplish anything more than the 25/06 [only .007" difference-- same as .270 and .280], except that you could use much heavier bullets, and by so doing you could maybe be more comfortable using it on larger game. I think the .270 is on the smallish side of my comfort zone for elk, and the .280 gives a bit more wiggle room, but again, not by much, since the difference between them is so small. The .30-06 is the most adept [in my mind] at the larger animals, of those listed. But these differences I state are more likely figments of my own imagination more than anything practical. They all do nearly the same thing, but still, if I were on an antelope hunt, the 25/06 seems to ME to be the best. On a Mule Deer hunt, looking for big bucks, and long ranges, the .270 or .280 seems to ME to be the best. For larger game I'D be most comfortable with a [hot loaded] .30-06. I don't know where the 6.5/06 fits in. I'd like to get one to figure that out. All that is personal opinion, and highly subjective.
 
I like the idea of AI's. I am almost finished my 6.5x55AI. I may come to my own conclusion that they are more of a pain than the payoff, but when I started building a custom, I wanted a custom. Everyone has a 'regular' chambered rifle...
 
AIs are a waste of time. You wear your barrel fireforming the brass and for what? A thoeretical increase in velocity and case life? What do you gain in a 30-06 class of cartridge...1 grain of powder? Has anyone ever fired and resized a piece of 30-06 brass to the point that it failed? Exactly how often does one have to trim the above noted brass? Add to the discussion the fact that P.O. Ackley didn't actually chamber rifles for many of his wildcats and simply estimated their velocities, I don't see any real benefit or validity to the whole exercise. I was going to chamber my 25-06 to AI when I built the rifle but am just as glad that I didn't in the end. If you want a hotter 25, buy the Weatherby.

The 6.5-06 is a good idea, but a lot of extra fooling around to get to damned near the same place as the 270. Brass and ammunition for the 280 is scarce at best. The 25-06 is reasonably obtainable and the 30-06 is ubiquitous. There's somethign to be said for readily available components and ammunition.
 
toss them in a jar all together,..shake them up really well and out rolls a 7mm Rem Mag....160's at 3050 and 140's at 3300.....does everything that any of them will do.....with no custom barrel job,..and no fireforming....

but if you want one of them, go for it...that's what makes a horse race...
 
Mad_Mikee said:
I prefer the 7mm family. Better selection of bullets for reloading.
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Better selection?? Maybe, but all bullet makers offer several bullets in 277" and as heavy up to 160gr. There's plenty selection for the 270 shooter. The 7MM will give you another 15gr heavier, but most people don't shoot the heaviest bullets and I doubt any game would be able to tell the diff between 160 and 175gr bullets.

Do you shoot the complete range of bullets in each of your 7MMs? Most people don't making this arguement null & void.

.
 
762nato said:
I beg to differ, the 2506 was made in the 1930's, brass and ammo are still readily available for all 3 of these calibers. If anything is a passing fad it is these short action magnums that do the same job as there long action counter oparts with a similar bullet weight and powder charge. The only gain with these is negated if the manufacturers dont make a shorter stiffer(more acurate) action to suit these rounds.
With the exception of the 6.506 which is not yet a sammi standard the rest of those calibers are readily available and regular ammo can be fired in any of the Ackley chamberings. I had a 3006 AI and was quite satisfied with is, currently own a 2506 and would chamer it to AI if I had a reamer available. The 6.5 06 is a very ineresting chamer and the AI would only be better.
There is no such thing as a do all end all rifle, the 3006 is the closest you will get but does not do all of the jobs intended with the same zing as some of the custom chamberings, so if you want to fill a certain niche and are willing to experiment, more power to you, you will get a great deal of satisfaction out of playing with these rounds and have something the non reloading regular hunters could never dream of.
Also if people did not have a desire to experiment and try new and different things we would still be shooting lead bullets from front stuffing guns.

As far as pro's and cons, AI chamerings provide around 3-7% increase in velocity, reduced bolt thrust, and eliminate the need to trim in most cases. Reguler rounds may be fired in Ackley chambers and some of your best shooting will be groups fired while fireforming these cases. The 6.5 bullet is usually carries a high bc and is good to long ranges. Slight to severe reduction in barrel life to due increase powder consumption is one of the cons, the second in my opinion is the need to buy a reamer if you can't find a smith that has one.

Andy
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:D

I beg to differ
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brass and ammo are still readily available for all 3 of these calibers.
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Sure they are!.......at Gobles, Ellwood Epps, Shooter's Choice, SIR/Cabelas.......but if you forget/lose a piece of luggage .....and you know that the most important stuff will always be in the missing luggage ......it won't be socks & underwear.....it will be you're ammo & GPS........ and if you're in Shythole, Ontario, 400 miles north of Vermilion or North Bay you will likely find a box of "thutty-thutty", "turdy-ought-six", "tree-oh-tree", "tree-oh-ate" "shells" lying on the shelves at the closest Crappy Tire or in Smoe's Hardware store down by the Post Office.

You WON'T & I emphatically repeat WON'T find .444 Marlin, 25-06 or 7mm-08 ammo..........you just WON'T .......bin dare & dun dat more than a couple of times over a 45 year hunting "career".

The boxes of C-I-L, Dominion, Remington-Peters "shells" that proprietor I. M. Bushed finds sitting under the dust behind 4 pails of Beehive Corn Syrup on the shelf in the Shythole General Store where they've been sitting for 30 years just might save your hunting trip...........seen that happen too !
 
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Everything that has been said is true, but if it's "coolness" that you seek, I like the 6.5-06 AI and 280 Rem AI.
 
Pathfinder said:
When I see anything AI I think "pain in the ass"......Just my opinion, Im sure many on here will disagree . I personally think a little case taper cant be a bad thing as far as feeding a hunting rifle.

Out of all those the one I would be attracted to would be 6.5-06......Should of been a factory chambering...6.5 has had a hard time catching on in the UNITED STATES
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Fixed it for you:p





Andy said:
Everything that has been said is true, but if it's "coolness" that you seek, I like the 6.5-06 AI and 280 Rem AI.
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I would go with the 6.5-06.In fact the next one I have done for myself will be a 6.5-06 or a 6.5-284 if I can get it to work on an 88.
 
BigUglyMan said:
AIs are a waste of time. You wear your barrel fireforming the brass and for what? A thoeretical increase in velocity and case life? What do you gain in a 30-06 class of cartridge...1 grain of powder? Has anyone ever fired and resized a piece of 30-06 brass to the point that it failed? Exactly how often does one have to trim the above noted brass? Add to the discussion the fact that P.O. Ackley didn't actually chamber rifles for many of his wildcats and simply estimated their velocities, I don't see any real benefit or validity to the whole exercise. I was going to chamber my 25-06 to AI when I built the rifle but am just as glad that I didn't in the end. If you want a hotter 25, buy the Weatherby.
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x2

The only Improved cartridges that make sense to me are the really tapered ones like 30-30AI, .375H&HAI, etc...

If you want a 25 AI, Get a 257 Weatherby. Want a 280 AI? It's called a 7mm Remington Magnum. 30-06AI is a .300 H&H, so you may as well get a 300 WM...
 
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