I'm new here, and trying to decide between 2 pistols. Any help?

mildlyconcerned said:
Hello.

snip.

My considerations are mainly self defense/protection, plinking and farting around.
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Glock 17 or S&W M&P9

SD/HD is not exactly a Canadian reason to own a handgun though.


Personally I am partial to the M&P

RB1AHR041_zps5d610627.jpg


But the CORE is not the cheapest option...
 
I have a tanfoglio model L in 45, really good gun for $725. next year it's an STI trojan 1911 in 9mm, expect great things from it.
 
OK. So more new fun things have come to mind and that being the case.... I think i'm narrowed down to 3-4 choices.

Now, i want to take part in IDPA and IPSC, that used to be fun back in the day, except all these yahoos were playing with .45's tricked out to look more like something from Buck Rogers than an actual gun... hehe. I'm sure everybody knows what i mean there.

So i've narrowed down to the fact that yeah, i LIKE the Viking 446, can't get around that, i like it a lot. But the spare mags issue, kinda leaves me concerned because down the road, you want more mags, and mags eventually need to be replaced.... so then what? Buy a crate now for future days? Not practical.
I also can't get around the Norinco NP34, i really really like that beast, i've held a couple in my hand, and yes sir. That fits me well. And the price? Well, heck, what can you compare to? Thats cheap. I mean used Ruger .22 cheap. heh. Actually, used Ruger .22's cost more. :)
Also like that K100 but thats more polymer than i wanted. I mean ####, I have more metal in my ipod it seems. But still its kinda cool.
And finally....I'm looking with interest at a used H&K USP 9mm. Sure it costs more, but its also that much more for the $$$ But if i can get it for the right price, its certainly going to be one of the 2-3 i pick up.

So, all this being said, whats the general consensus? I'm really thinking if i snag anything, its going to be the Norinco, Viking (if i can figure out the spare mags issue), and the H&K.
All 3 should be more than i ever will need. Thoughts?
 
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If you want steel frame & in expensive

Jericho 941

$600

Makes me look like a pro shooter
 

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+1 for CZ.

Specifically, you might find the CZ-85 Combat fits the bill. Solid steel frame, fibre optic sights, can be found for under $600, and damn fine lookin' piece.

With all honesty, still one of the handguns I shoot best with. Just throws 'em in....
 
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mildlyconcerned said:
OK. So more new fun things have come to mind and that being the case.... I think i'm narrowed down to 3-4 choices.

Now, i want to take part in IDPA and IPSC, that used to be fun back in the day, except all these yahoos were playing with .45's tricked out to look more like something from Buck Rogers than an actual gun... hehe. I'm sure everybody knows what i mean there.

So i've narrowed down to the fact that yeah, i LIKE the Viking 446, can't get around that, i like it a lot. But the spare mags issue, kinda leaves me concerned because down the road, you want more mags, and mags eventually need to be replaced.... so then what? Buy a crate now for future days? Not practical.
I also can't get around the Norinco NP34, i really really like that beast, i've held a couple in my hand, and yes sir. That fits me well. And the price? Well, heck, what can you compare to? Thats cheap. I mean used Ruger .22 cheap. heh. Actually, used Ruger .22's cost more. :)
Also like that K100 but thats more polymer than i wanted. I mean ####, I have more metal in my ipod it seems. But still its kinda cool.
And finally....I'm looking with interest at a used H&K USP 9mm. Sure it costs more, but its also that much more for the $$$ But if i can get it for the right price, its certainly going to be one of the 2-3 i pick up.

So, all this being said, whats the general consensus? I'm really thinking if i snag anything, its going to be the Norinco, Viking (if i can figure out the spare mags issue), and the H&K.
All 3 should be more than i ever will need. Thoughts?
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Don't let the mag issue dissuade you, personally I think it is a bit overplayed - it may have once been that way but it's gotten a lot better. You might have to order in mags for it but you wont be waiting ages like you once would have I'm certain of that.

If you're going to go the way of the HK - I wouldn't pay more for a used one in good nick than I would for a new Viking. My experience with HK's is very good - but for the extra dosh you're not going to get much better accuracy (if any) than you would with the viking and the viking will feed more reliably. If you do want to spend extra money go for a used CZ SP01 Shadow or Tanfoglio Stock 3 - the engineering behind them is inherently better than the HK lending to superior accuracy, they're also more oriented towards the sporting shooter in as far as ergonomics go.

Look at the equipment surveys at major IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, or pretty much any type of action pistol sports. You will rarely if ever see a HK in the winners circle or even the top ten. There are reasons for that. Competition is a crucible, that which doesnt work or dosent live up to it's hype will quickly be cast aside in favor of more suitable tools. (Not bagging on HK's by any means, you wouldn't regret owning it - but there are better guns for the same money; it's kind of a PC vs. Mac thing here. HK's are like macs, you pay extra money for the badge and 'tacticool' but overall get less performance per dollar out of the box).

Look at the equipment surveys at major IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, or pretty much any type of action pistol sports. You will rarely if ever see a HK in the winners circle or even the top ten. There are reasons for that.
Competition is a crucible, that which doesn't work or dosent live up to it's hype will quickly be cast aside in favor of more suitable tools. To be frank the HK doesn't live up to the hype, same goes for Sig (excluding the Sig P210, that's a ###y, ###y gun).

This comes from having shot quite a few HK 9mm and comparing them to a CZ-75 SP01 Shadow, the accuracy isn't there for the HK's as the CZ outclassed it in all aspects (apart from field stripping - the CZ is a bit of a pain there) and while I haven't shot a HK since buying my Viking but the groups seem to be about the same (this makes sense from an engineering standpoint as the viking's breech mechanism is mechanically very similar to the HK, they both also have the external slide rail characteristic which is inherently less accurate than the internal slide rail shared by the Tanfoglio and CZ pistols).

I hope this doesn't come across as rabid fanboyism for the Viking, it's not; more simply the fact that of the wide array of 9mm that I've shot personally it has proven to be the best value for money in the 'cheaper' end of the pistol spectrum.
It's the only one I've found so far that remains competitive in all areas with guns twice it's price, by which I mean it's almost as good or better in all areas as a pistol that costs twice as much. (There may be others out there that fit this criteria; I hear some of the Norincos do but I've only ever shot one norinco - i
t was a 9mm 1911 clone I think and it was rubbish [Caveat: it had been ridden to buggery as it was a club owned gun and probably had 40,000 (wild guess) rounds through it BEFORE I'd even shot it]). So I'm not qualified to comment on the Norincos.

TL;DR: If I were offered to buy a new viking or a near new HK for say: $300 - I would buy the viking. The Viking is as much and more gun for less money.

Your mileage wont vary.

Cheers, Wufflykins.
 
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think the decision has been made..... (Drumroll....)


Viking AND the Norinco.

Just doing the math on them and pardon the pun, its the most bang for the buck. And i'm sure once i've dropped a couple bucks to have them tuned up and better sights put on them, etc. Its all i'm going to need for a loooong time. *crosses fingers* Just hope the antidote i took for the collecting bug...works. lol! Otherwise these two...are just going to be the start.
 
If you really like the viking, Interammo one of the site sponsors carries a steel framed one with 6 mags for $699 (http://interammo.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=32_34&products_id=84) .....not a bad buy. The jericho is great too, no muzzle lift at all in 9mm its like shooting a .22. Stay away from the np34, shoots like crap. And the girsan regard mc is a great pistol for the price....and lastly, S.A.M 1911 from wolverine would be a gooder too.
 
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Yes. I had to rule out anything from Yasvuz as what i want from them isn't legal barrel in canada, and everything else is a beretta 92 clone or variant which i absolutely do not want at all.
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Beretta is a great design, and even the compacts are still restricted.
 
smiley1 said:
Wufflykins....CZ hard to field strip??? Not likely! You can field strip it in about 3 seconds...in the dark!
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I mean to say harder; not by a lot but harder - due to there being tighter tolerances (mostly that damn slide stop - it's a lot stiffer on the CZ's than any other pistol I've shot).

In either case not a significant thing.
 
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If you're considering Girsan Yavuz 16 (I guess it is made in Turkey), which is around $520, then you have a big option:

I have Taurus 24/7 and it's the best gun I ever had... price, under $600. See https://www.freedomventures.ca/products/firearms/pistols/taurus

S&W MP is also good... price, under $600

Steyr M1A is under $600

IWI Jericho as suggested above

Grand Power K100

What other cool guns I missed that you can buy under $600?
 
The Girsan i was considering or hoping for, wasn't/isn't one of their beretta clones.... Lets see if this works, gonna try some nifty pasting and whatnot. Crossing my fingers n stuff.... :)
To heck with it. Heres a link. Those work better.. this is what i was considering, but the barrel length isn't good for canada.

http://guns.findthebest.com/l/1320/Girsan-MC-27-E

So i'm with the Viking 446, UNLESS someone knows where to get a soviet surplus 443...(less money?) and as well, i'm on the Norinco MP-34
 
Wufflykins said:
If I might offer a second suggestion - much in line with the K100 for your consideration:

DSCN7059.jpg


A Baikal Viking MP-446 - Now you've probably never heard of Baikal: It's the Western trading name for the folks who brought the world the Makarov (another fantastic bit of kit).

What you get for the modest sum that you'll spend on these is one of the toughest and most reliable polymer frame pistols you'll see on the market to day.

In my experience the trigger on it is great and out of the thousand odd rounds I've put through of varying and dubious quality it has not failed to feed/fire/eject once.

At all.

Ever.

And pretty much every review you'll find on the 'net backs this up.

It's aesthetics is hit and miss with people - to me it's got the rugged russian 'is built like tractor' feel to it. One of those guns that's so ugly it's pretty.

Well I think it's pretty. YMMV.

Oh - and for a few dollars more you can get it in steel frame.
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+1. Great gun for the $$$
 
Wufflykins said:
Don't let the mag issue dissuade you, personally I think it is a bit overplayed - it may have once been that way but it's gotten a lot better. You might have to order in mags for it but you wont be waiting ages like you once would have I'm certain of that.

If you're going to go the way of the HK - I wouldn't pay more for a used one in good nick than I would for a new Viking. My experience with HK's is very good - but for the extra dosh you're not going to get much better accuracy (if any) than you would with the viking and the viking will feed more reliably. If you do want to spend extra money go for a used CZ SP01 Shadow or Tanfoglio Stock 3 - the engineering behind them is inherently better than the HK lending to superior accuracy, they're also more oriented towards the sporting shooter in as far as ergonomics go.

Look at the equipment surveys at major IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, or pretty much any type of action pistol sports. You will rarely if ever see a HK in the winners circle or even the top ten. There are reasons for that. Competition is a crucible, that which doesnt work or dosent live up to it's hype will quickly be cast aside in favor of more suitable tools. (Not bagging on HK's by any means, you wouldn't regret owning it - but there are better guns for the same money; it's kind of a PC vs. Mac thing here. HK's are like macs, you pay extra money for the badge and 'tacticool' but overall get less performance per dollar out of the box).

Look at the equipment surveys at major IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, or pretty much any type of action pistol sports. You will rarely if ever see a HK in the winners circle or even the top ten. There are reasons for that.
Competition is a crucible, that which doesn't work or dosent live up to it's hype will quickly be cast aside in favor of more suitable tools. To be frank the HK doesn't live up to the hype, same goes for Sig (excluding the Sig P210, that's a ###y, ###y gun).

This comes from having shot quite a few HK 9mm and comparing them to a CZ-75 SP01 Shadow, the accuracy isn't there for the HK's as the CZ outclassed it in all aspects (apart from field stripping - the CZ is a bit of a pain there) and while I haven't shot a HK since buying my Viking but the groups seem to be about the same (this makes sense from an engineering standpoint as the viking's breech mechanism is mechanically very similar to the HK, they both also have the external slide rail characteristic which is inherently less accurate than the internal slide rail shared by the Tanfoglio and CZ pistols).

I hope this doesn't come across as rabid fanboyism for the Viking, it's not; more simply the fact that of the wide array of 9mm that I've shot personally it has proven to be the best value for money in the 'cheaper' end of the pistol spectrum.
It's the only one I've found so far that remains competitive in all areas with guns twice it's price, by which I mean it's almost as good or better in all areas as a pistol that costs twice as much. (There may be others out there that fit this criteria; I hear some of the Norincos do but I've only ever shot one norinco - i
t was a 9mm 1911 clone I think and it was rubbish [Caveat: it had been ridden to buggery as it was a club owned gun and probably had 40,000 (wild guess) rounds through it BEFORE I'd even shot it]). So I'm not qualified to comment on the Norincos.

TL;DR: If I were offered to buy a new viking or a near new HK for say: $300 - I would buy the viking. The Viking is as much and more gun for less money.

Your mileage wont vary.

Cheers, Wufflykins.
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, who uses the viking? I don't want to hear about these clowns that play silly goose with their gamer guns, I want to know which professionals runs this amazing gun. GSG9? I see usp and glock, KSK? USP. Did the seal team 6 run vikings? Oh wait they ran HK45s. Hmmm, what about Aussie SAS? Wait they use usp do they? Isn't that an overrated HK? What about the Grom sf of poland a former commie country? USP? WHAT? I could keep going but you get the picture. Hmmm, who uses the viking, oh it is used as a training pistol for the kazakh army, not even the main issue. LOL

So the people that like to run around in fruity coloured shirts like to run a cz or whatever your no name russian pistol is whoopty do. Again tell me what the professionals that use these for what they are meant for run again? Oh right HK Sig or Glock for any tier one unit worth a damn. Hmmmmm surprise surprise.

Just out of curiousity how many rounds do any of your pistols have, and out of them how many malfunctions have you had with each one?

As to the question to the OP posted, what's your firm budget and how much will you be shooting this pistol realistically?
 
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