I'm over buying winchester ammo

blazerman

blazerman

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I picked up a box of winchester xpert steel shotshells the other day because they were cheaper than the other brands. I cut them open to check them out, like I do with every brand, and found out why they were so cheap. The pellets are barely round, many of them have large dimples in them, and some have little bumps on them.

I stopped buying winchester 22 ammo a long time ago because they were not accurate and jammed more than any other brand.

As for rifle cartridges, they just are not consistent enough for me.

I'll never buy another winchester shell again! Anyway thats my rant, and it's out of my system now.
 
I have never been a fan of Winchester ammo. Some of thier premium line seems pretty decent, but very pricy as well.

Reloading is the way to go, most factory sucks bag :D
 
Winchester shotshells are by and large ####. I have had personally (and witnessed) more failures with Winchester ammo and components than any other brand.
 
Winchester Ammo

I cant stand by and let a comment like your's go by "Claybuster"....about witnessing more failures with winchester ammo than any other. Unless you are buying Walmart specials.
I have shot through out Europe and Canada for 35 years...and some big shoots,,,with big guns..and the standard ammo by which others are measured is Winchester AA. That you claim to have witnessed more failures with that, than any other..I call Bull. Sorry. All the componants, win 209 primers, AA hulls and AA wads for handloaders...are a standard used by the best shooters. And as for center fire Rifle ammo...the top end stuff, although expensive..is hard to beat even with handloads. I use AA for skeet and sporting clays, have shot a pile of AA ammo, and cant ever remember a failure. Its what I use when I get serious, as do many other fine shooters I know..
Your blatant comments just cheesed me off, because it hasnt been my experiance, maybe its because I shoot quality guns, or Ive just been lucky, but I dont think thats it. So what do you shoot? Can you give more specific examples of AA failures?
 
long bow said:
I cant stand by and let a comment like your's go by "Claybuster"....about witnessing more failures with winchester ammo than any other. Unless you are buying Walmart specials.
I have shot through out Europe and Canada for 35 years...and some big shoots,,,with big guns..and the standard ammo by which others are measured is Winchester AA. That you claim to have witnessed more failures with that, than any other..I call Bull. Sorry. All the componants, win 209 primers, AA hulls and AA wads for handloaders...are a standard used by the best shooters. And as for center fire Rifle ammo...the top end stuff, although expensive..is hard to beat even with handloads. I use AA for skeet and sporting clays, have shot a pile of AA ammo, and cant ever remember a failure. Its what I use when I get serious, as do many other fine shooters I know..
Your blatant comments just cheesed me off, because it hasnt been my experiance, maybe its because I shoot quality guns, or Ive just been lucky, but I dont think thats it. So what do you shoot? Can you give more specific examples of AA failures?
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long bow, I might have agreed with your statement 10 years ago but not today.

Just two weeks ago a fellow shooter had a factory new AA hull come apart, plastic left in the gun and brass case head ejected. That's happened to me a couple of times and to two other shooters using AA when I was there. To be fair I've seen it happen with Remington STS 28 gauge but only with two or three shells from the same box. With other loads it's happened to me once with a Kent shell.

In total I've had about a dozen faulty Winchester AA 209s. My post mortem showed very little or a complete absence of compound in the primer. I've never encountered anything similar with Cheddite, Federal or Remington primers.

On a private sporting clays shoot three years ago, 22 shooters shot 800 targets over three days and we all used Winchester AA factory loads. We had reports from various squads about off-sounding loads and wads jammed in barrels. Two of the jammed wads happened to me and were so tight in the barrel they had to be hammered out. Again bad primers were at fault.

AA hulls used to be a good single piece hull. A few years back however Winchester went to a two piece AA hull. Winchester said at the time that reloaders could use exactly the same components as the old hulls. This was caca del toro. Winchester has since slightly changed the configuration of their wads to accomodate the thicker base walls of the new hull. If you use after market wads (e.g. Claybuster or Duster) you'll find the older hulls run through the machine more smoothly than the new product. Also, I've loaded a few thousand of the HS type hulls and find they split far more often than the older AA hulls. If you are reloading Remington STS and Federal Gold Medal are better choices.

I've fired various Winchester promo ammo. The only positive thing I can say is that the 1-1/8 ounce Super Target is somewhat better than the Federal Top Gun but that is damning with faint praise. The Hi-Speed 7/8s ounce load isn't too bad if you are shooting skeet or short sporting targets. The 1 ounce High Speed rated at 1350 fps kicks the snot out of you. I shoot a similar load made by Challenger that while slighty more expensive recoils less and uses better lead.

Having attended the Grand American where factory ammo is required I see a fewer shooters with Winchester AA than a decade ago. Federal Papers and Remington STS are more popular.

I am not sure what you mean by "quality guns" but I'm currently shooting two Perazzis and a Beretta 391 for targets. Previously I've owned Berettas, Brownings, Winchesters and a Krieghoff so I don't think the quality of the guns I'm using is an issue.:rolleyes:

If my comments have "cheesed you off" that's your tough luck. Clearly, we don't share the same opinion nor have we had the same experiences. I will however stand firmly by my conclusions and the fact they cheese you off quite frankly doesn't trouble me in the slightest.

Shoot your AA to your hearts content. But when I am serious I'll make another choice -- Federal or Remington most likely -- but I'd rather shoot Kent, Challenger or my own reloads than current production Winchester AA.
 
Hey Long bow

Claybuster is right, winchester shells are lousy.

The cheap Federal shells are well made. The Remington Sure Shot shells that are $53 bucks a case at Lebarons are great. But the cheap winchester have poor crimps, the shot falls out of the shells, the shells just manage to cycle the action of my semi. Yes I agree that the Double A shell is good, but for the price they better be. Shells are made on automated machines and if Winchester does not have the brains to set their shell crimpers properly, even for the cheap runs, you got to wonder who's in charge of quality control.

Sticker
 
Winchester shotshells are by and large s**t. I have had personally (and witnessed) more failures with Winchester ammo and components than any other brand.
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I hate winchester shot shells and only use Kent now, but like winchester brass
 
In my 870 12 gauge, the winchesters always jams and I really have to reef on the pump to slide it out of there.

It was only $4 for a box of 25 3" #2's and #7 1/2s so thats why i bought them.

I went to bass pro today and they only have winchester or kent, lebarons only has Remington, Winchester or Kent.

I dunno where else to go
 
AA Winchester Ammo...

"I took apart some old Winchester AAs #2s last year "

Holy smokes...am I that far out of the loop that there are now #2's in AA. I'd better pull my horns in.:)
I am humbled.....when I was shooting in Europe on the NSSA circut, AA's and Rem RXP's where the flagships. A winchester rep would do almost anything carnel if there was a hint that even a crimp was un-even. Claybuster, I may have sounded harsh, but truely, I have never experienced any of your troubles. I always used AA hulls, or Skeet 100's for reloads, and shot AAfactory stuff when things got serious. I cant believe that the quality control would slip that much. And where are the reports to the company? Clay shooters are a fickel bunch ya know..Or do they just not care? Wow...
Claybuster, I started out with a Mauser Competion O/U with Tula chokes, and now use a Beretta 682S with Brileys...Still not had a problem. So, do tell, what is the factory 12ga load at the forefront these days..? Maybe I have been shooting rifle to long...
 
I have never had any major issues either with Winchester, I have seen a shell with no primer and I think once had a fail to fire. Now in the cheap Winchester target, I have had absolutely zero troubles.

As far as the stel shot not being round... well Remigton Hevi Shot at around $2 a shell is terribly deformed as well. Causes more trauma when it hits a bird. I of course couldn't afford to cut open a shell, but I have picked a few pellets out of ducks and geese.
 
I have been shooting Win Super targets for some time now and I have never had a failure. Maybe I'm lucky. I find winchester clean burning the action in my semi after few boxes of federals was really filthy.
 
long bow said:
"I took apart some old Winchester AAs #2s last year "

Holy smokes...am I that far out of the loop that there are now #2's in AA. I'd better pull my horns in.:)
I am humbled.....when I was shooting in Europe on the NSSA circut, AA's and Rem RXP's where the flagships. A winchester rep would do almost anything carnel if there was a hint that even a crimp was un-even. Claybuster, I may have sounded harsh, but truely, I have never experienced any of your troubles. I always used AA hulls, or Skeet 100's for reloads, and shot AAfactory stuff when things got serious. I cant believe that the quality control would slip that much. And where are the reports to the company? Clay shooters are a fickel bunch ya know..Or do they just not care? Wow...
Claybuster, I started out with a Mauser Competion O/U with Tula chokes, and now use a Beretta 682S with Brileys...Still not had a problem. So, do tell, what is the factory 12ga load at the forefront these days..? Maybe I have been shooting rifle to long...
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The #2 in AA hulls took me back a bit as well. ;)

As for the response from the company that is the very disappointing part. Winchester instead of acknowledging some of their shells might not be up to par instead accused me and a couple of others of oil contamination, poor storage of their shells and improper loading techniques. Remington OTOH replaced a flat of shells for my friend who ran into some case head separation problems.

Clay shooters are not only fickle but cheap. I think for practice the majority are shooting Federal Top Gun or Winchester Super Target. Both are around the same price as reloads. I like Kent Velocity when I can find it but their All Purpose load doesn't seem quite as good. Challenger makes good ammo and IMHO it's the same quality as the Kent Velocity.

I shoot reloads, Challengers and Kent Velocity. I have a couple thousand old style AA hulls and when they are used up I'll probably switch to Remington STS or Gold Medal although I've had good success reloading the Cheddite hulls (Challenger or Kent Velocity) but don't reuse them more than a couple of times. The good news about the Cheddite hulls is that they work well in my loader which is set up for AA hulls. Federal GM and STS are both a little longer and the loader has to be adjusted accordingly.
 
We had reports from various squads about off-sounding loads and wads jammed in barrels. Two of the jammed wads happened to me and were so tight in the barrel they had to be hammered out.
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just out of curiosity (I know you clay dudes use break-open shotguns), but what would happen if the above were to happen on a repeater shotgun such as a pump or semi and a second shot was fired? KB?
 
This seems to be my day for screw ups I did the AA thing from what I thought had been printed on the box.I went into the loading room just now and found a case I had disassembled from that batch and they are super X magmum 2 3/4" 1 1/2 oz mark 5.
Rich
 
Proutfoo said:
just out of curiosity (I know you clay dudes use break-open shotguns), but what would happen if the above were to happen on a repeater shotgun such as a pump or semi and a second shot was fired? KB?
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Usually the gun wouldn't cycle and therefore you would neot get the second shot. Although I have seen some guys that are very fast at manually cycling their action while shooting sporting clays, it is conceivable this could happen.
 
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