I'm torn between 223 or 308 HELP!
- Thread starter dh002052
- Start date
Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Gonna get allot of opinions here..........
308 is mine. I do have both. But think 308 will be more forgiving in the wind. Lots of good bullets, powder for choices. But I do believe that 223 is gaining in this area aswell.
Rifle; another opinion here...... Savage for factory accuracy. Tikka is good aswell. But the Tikka has very little aftermarket stuff to "improve" the rifle. Savage is getting better for the aftermarket. Remington seems to own the aftermarket...
Get the best quality scope that you can afford. Or buy a cheaper one to get you shooting and upgrade later when you can afford to do so. One of my 308s has a 4.5x14 on it. My BR style 308 has a 10x50 power scope on it. One 223 has a 4.5x16 on it. More can be better up to a point. Sometimes more shows mirage in a worse way.
Once again, one schmuck's opinion......
308 is mine. I do have both. But think 308 will be more forgiving in the wind. Lots of good bullets, powder for choices. But I do believe that 223 is gaining in this area aswell.
Rifle; another opinion here...... Savage for factory accuracy. Tikka is good aswell. But the Tikka has very little aftermarket stuff to "improve" the rifle. Savage is getting better for the aftermarket. Remington seems to own the aftermarket...
Get the best quality scope that you can afford. Or buy a cheaper one to get you shooting and upgrade later when you can afford to do so. One of my 308s has a 4.5x14 on it. My BR style 308 has a 10x50 power scope on it. One 223 has a 4.5x16 on it. More can be better up to a point. Sometimes more shows mirage in a worse way.
Once again, one schmuck's opinion......
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Remington SPS , fairly inexpensive and easily upgradeable later on.That action can be the base for a very accurate rifle.Sightron scopes are great glass with great options for the price, you should be able to come within your budget with these two items.
As MAX stated the .308 will buck the wind better however at a larger cost in components.
The .223 however will allow you to develop your skills with less likely hood of developing bad habits due to recoil
related issues.
If you want some awesome information on .223 long range shooting go check out Mystic Precisions website or even send Jerry an email, he can get you on the strait and narrow very quickly.He is shooting his .223 out to a mile accurately!!
As MAX stated the .308 will buck the wind better however at a larger cost in components.
The .223 however will allow you to develop your skills with less likely hood of developing bad habits due to recoil
related issues.
If you want some awesome information on .223 long range shooting go check out Mystic Precisions website or even send Jerry an email, he can get you on the strait and narrow very quickly.He is shooting his .223 out to a mile accurately!!
Of the two, I would say .308 given that you hope to get to a thousand. Of the two brands of scopes, go with Nightforce and- for a target rifle out to 1000- go with the 12-42x56 NF Benchrest. As for rifle brands, all are good with Tikka possibly being the better 'out of the box' on average but, personally, I would get a Remington. If you don't want to upgrade get a R5 but if a new barrel etc is likely soon then get a SPS and simply use the action as a donor for a custom build etc. Whatever you choose, good luck with the adventure.
I know from shooting at Connaught the 223 will have less wind on than a 308 shooting 155gr at 3000 fps at 900m.
fellows shooting the 185gr Bergers are about the same as 223 shooting 90gr at 2775fps. you can go to any balistic calculator and run the numbers to verify.
The 223 seem to shoot better from 300m to 600m I feel its because of the less recoil. I also have seen the 223 at 900m keep 12 of 15 shots in 5" ICFRA V bull in excellent conditions.
And I have see a member here Matt shoot 5 shots in 5" at 900m .308win.
So both are very close Note: these are all custom barreled guns not out of box factory rifles.
I use a NF 12x 42 Benchrest and like it very much except for turrets they only have 6 moa adjustments per revolution,you have to write down where you are when there is 13 to 15 moa winds. The Sightron 111 10 to 50x or the 10 to 32x would be good to consider as they gave 10moa per revolution
Good luck and get out shooting
manitou
Good luck
fellows shooting the 185gr Bergers are about the same as 223 shooting 90gr at 2775fps. you can go to any balistic calculator and run the numbers to verify.
The 223 seem to shoot better from 300m to 600m I feel its because of the less recoil. I also have seen the 223 at 900m keep 12 of 15 shots in 5" ICFRA V bull in excellent conditions.
And I have see a member here Matt shoot 5 shots in 5" at 900m .308win.
So both are very close Note: these are all custom barreled guns not out of box factory rifles.
I use a NF 12x 42 Benchrest and like it very much except for turrets they only have 6 moa adjustments per revolution,you have to write down where you are when there is 13 to 15 moa winds. The Sightron 111 10 to 50x or the 10 to 32x would be good to consider as they gave 10moa per revolution
Good luck and get out shooting
manitou
Good luck
Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Only one solution here.....buy both!
Now we're talkin!
I would look at the Savage FTR rifle if your doing 1000yrds. I own a Tikka tactical rifle in .223 & I have bullet jump can't reach the lands. The gun does shoot well with reloads, but with factory ammo it doesn't hold a good group.
Knowing that my first long-range rifle would probably not be my last, I went with the 223. I figured I'd be steep on the learning curve for a while and it would be easier if I didn't have to deal with recoil. Technique is so important. I can also shoot twice as much 223 for the same cost. Putting rounds down range is where you learn, and more is better After getting advice from someone I trust, I went with the Savage model 10. Very accurate out of the box and easily upgradable for when I decide to go bigger. I'll probably go to one of the 6.5's when I've learned all the 223 can teach me, but I'm still learning every time I pick it up.
After getting advice from someone I trust, I went with the Savage model 10. Very accurate out of the box and easily upgradable for when I decide to go bigger. I'll probably go to one of the 6.5's when I've learned all the 223 can teach me, but I'm still learning every time I pick it up.
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
my free anonymous internet advice is find a tikka varmint in 260 remington and don't look back. 223 and 308 are both ok but far from perfect long range cartridges. So much so that the compete in a class by themselves in f-class. DOn't let anyone tell you otherwise, those tikkas are damned fine rifles and some of the most accurate.
There isn't a 223 bullet that touches a Berger 140 and you would need to go to 210 grains in 308 and you would have no vlelocity.
There isn't a 223 bullet that touches a Berger 140 and you would need to go to 210 grains in 308 and you would have no vlelocity.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Thanks for all your input! I think i'm leaning to the 223 just for the cost. I've got a 308 in a hunting gun that shoots great to 300yds. I would like a little more input from anyone out there in reguards to scopes like Sightron, Nightforce, Millet and so on!
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
223 cartidge is too small to make the best of the high BC .224 bullets. It's fine if you're shooting against other 223's. 22BR and a 90 grain Berger would be superb. Even a 222 Remington Magnum woud be better.
30 CALIBER is fine - sort-of but for high BC bullets, it does not have the case capacity. Remember that it is a matter of scale. To find a 30 cal or even a 223 bullet with high BC, you need the appropriate case to push it.
In terms of scale therefore, a 308 case necked down to use a 6.5 bullet has FAR superior ballistics to anything 224 caliber, and which is only equalled in 30 cal bullets that are functionally too large for a 308 case. When you do this you have to cope with punishing recoil, and when competing in fullbore shooting, those guns are weight restricted.
308s have lots of recoil jump and torque combined with mediocre velocity. 6.5 or a 7mm are far better choices. remember that the 223 and 308 were essentially designed to be machine gun rounds.
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
go the best you can afford. It takes a rich man to buy a cheap scope, because if you buy mediocre quality, I guarantee you will want to upgrade. As imprtant, get the reticle designed for the type of shooting you want to do.
Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have a Millet scope that is o.k. But when you turned the manification up over 20x is became hazy.
Scope is the 6x25 long range model. Has 140 MOA of internal elevation.
Have a Sightron 10x50x60. Seems alright so far. But I find the cross hairs are pretty damn fine and tough to see on a black target at 100 meters/yards. Haven't shot this one nearly enough, though.
Scope is the 6x25 long range model. Has 140 MOA of internal elevation.
Have a Sightron 10x50x60. Seems alright so far. But I find the cross hairs are pretty damn fine and tough to see on a black target at 100 meters/yards. Haven't shot this one nearly enough, though.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I have been mucking with the 223 and various bullets for a long time and sent lots of shots downrange in F class and LR plinking.
In steady air, even if the velocity is high, competitive with the 308's. In bumpy, twitchy, switchy air, you will loose more points for the same mistake or condition.
Despite my "need" to make the 223 work out to 1000yds, it doesn't cause you never know what the wind gods will send you.
For moderate ranges like say 600m, definitely little downside to the 223/90-80 combos. I have won at Kamloops, podium in Chilliwack. had tight comps with other 223 shooters.
Out to 1000yds, there is no replacement for displacement.
I see that you are nearby (Summerland for me). If you want to BS over a coffee, give me a shout.
I use a Sightron scope cause of the options it gives me to read the mirage, weight and price. Others will go with MARCH or S&B if they are using a spotter or have different goals on viewing the target. NF is a solid scope with many users but it is being displaced for a variety of reasons.
Really boils down to what you want to do and how competitive you want to be.
At this time, I am working on a 308 but will continue to shoot the 223 for practise and moderate distance matches.
For the same reasons the 223 is not ideal at 1000yds, are the same reasons it makes a superb practise chambering.
paperslayer, I think you need to see what the latest greatest is being cooked up in F class. Although I am not a fan of the direction, there were no shortage of 308 FTR shooters using whiz bang tech to challenge OVERALL top scores at the US Nationals. I know they shot the highest scores for a few relays. I even got a chance to score one of those top scoring relays... PURDY...
The arms race is now in FTR and it is getting a bit silly......
As for the 6.5 in Open, that is so 2010
Jerry
Yep....agreed....
