Importance of Combat/Defensive Shotgun Features?

[BlastingChipmunk]

First of all, I wish to appologize to all the mods and users if this has already been discussed, i have searched for this and if i missed the thread, it was due to my weakness in the ways of the search function. Now, onto the actual topic.

Ive looked around, and i have not been able to find out the importance of qualitities/features in a tactical/ animal defense/combat shotgun? ive found things that would make a shotgun better, but i am unsure on the importance of each feature. (Some such as it being a 12 have been obvious)

If you whom is reading this thread could reply with ideas, comments, stories, or anything that could give me a better understanding of what is required, I would appreciate it alot.

If you are wondering what I defining as tactical/animal defense/ combat, i have some goals that i want for my future shotgun. (please let me know if these are good goals, total crap, or Wishfull thinking)

A) To consistantly place aprox. 50% of 00 buckshot in a 30 cm circle at 50m (yes i know 50% of 9 is 4.5, that 50% is over several pattenings)

B) To be able to fire most slugs, I wish to experiment a little with slug types

C) To be able to group the slugs in a 30cm circle at 200m (thats just over 6MOA)

D) Able to fire at 240 rpm, I want to Pump out ALOT of metal into whatever threat i encounter. (Semi or Pump)

E) Lightweight < 7.5 Kg, I'm no Arnold.

F) Short < 75cm, nothing worse than something that you cant get on target fast.

G) Reliable as Hell, I Dont want my last words to be, "Oh S**T, A Jam"

H) Easily Carried, Few things worse than a Gun that you hate carrying.

I) Extremely Quick to Get on Target, Nuff Said.

J) Able to Achieve all these conditions under any circumstances short of gross unrealism. (Such as battling a Cyber-Demon in Hell ) e.g. hot, cold, wet, dry, dark, light, whatever.

Please be Kind, Help a fellow gun nut who wishes to know what he should aim for. (if you've read this long post, you've been kind already)

P.S. I've heard rumours that a semi shotgun has no mag cap, Does it fall under the semi centerfire restriction of 5, or is it a special case? Im pretty sure its still prohib to have a big mag, if im wrong please correct me, i would be very happy to be wrong.

 

[agilent_one]

A) To consistantly place aprox. 50% of 00 buckshot in a 30 cm circle at 50m (yes i know 50% of 9 is 4.5, that 50% is over several pattenings)

That may be some good shooting, but 50m is getting a little long for buckshot. Buck is <25m IMO.

B) To be able to fire most slugs, I wish to experiment a little with slug types

Get a cylinder bore, and launch all the fosters and brennekes you want.

C) To be able to group the slugs in a 30cm circle at 200m (thats just over 6MOA)

Up to you. That is pretty far for a shotgun. No shame in trying & keep us posted.

D) Able to fire at 240 rpm, I want to Pump out ALOT of metal into whatever threat i encounter. (Semi or Pump)

4 rnds/sec? Highly unlikely. Maybe 2 with a good semi.

E) Lightweight < 7.5 Kg, I'm no Arnold.

Lighter shotgun = greater recoil. Your choice.

F) Short < 75cm, nothing worse than something that you cant get on target fast.

Agreed, 20" is the longest I would consider using. Also, avoid pistol grips like the plague.

G) Reliable as Hell, I Dont want my last words to be, "Oh S**T, A Jam"

Your choices:
Rem 870
Mossberg 500/590

 

[Brutus]

Whoa there, I see two other excellent choices:

1. Ithaca M37 riot gun, or M37 Featherlight.
One is 4 shot, and the other, is 7 shot. Can be had in blued or parkerized finish. The lightest all steel shotgun, period.

 

[Winz]

P.S. I've heard rumours that a semi shotgun has no mag cap, Does it fall under the semi centerfire restriction of 5, or is it a special case? Im pretty sure its still prohib to have a big mag, if im wrong please correct me, i would be very happy to be wrong.

I think agilent answered most of your questions.

In the case of number of cartridges, you are allowed 5 in a SEMI, unlimited is only for manual action(ie pump action) firearms, unless specified by name(eg a M1Garand)

 

[Calum]

+2 on avoiding pistol grips...IMHO unless you have a heavy shotgun with a laser dot mounted beaming a dot on your close target forget about hitting anything reliably.

 

[gushulak]

x2 on Rem 870 or Mossberg 500/590.

I own a 590 and love it, also, consider ghost ring sites, best for a defensive minded shottie.

 

[pitdogboy]

^ and it takes an m7 bayo so your last words will not be ' Oh crap a jam'....

 

[Colin]

A purely defensive SG for 2 legged predators would around 18-20" long with fore-end light, semi, pump or assisted pump (Fabarm) is your preferance. The pump is a distinctive sound and if the BG heard a round being racked, likely they will discover their desire to harm you melt away, avoiding the need to shoot. You should be using tactical/low velocity loads, general 00 buck is recommanded. This allows the use of pistol grips, stocks are still advised.

 

[Ceska]

X3 on the Mossberg 590 or Rem 870.

 

[CZ Shooter]

I would stay away from semis...the pump is more reliable..
Also.... the racking sound of a pump shotgun is a very powerfull message to send to the 2 legged predator
This sound has been so much intrenched in everyones mind's from decades of movies....i belive just that sound alone will cause even the most determined predator to re-consider his actions, while running in a zig-zag pattern away from you.....

It almost makes you wonder why the alarm companies haven't incorporated that sound into their home security systems instead of the sirene.....

Shotgun is a defensive weapon, due to it's limited range, so i wouldn't worry about not hitting anything over 200 meters....

Also a thing to consider is the appearance of the shotgun shouldn't be overlooked, since the more "tactical" it appears..... the better for the dead predator's family's lawyer.....

Don't kid yourself..... he/she will try to estabilish that you are a Rambo wannabe...just itching to blow someone's head off with your tricked up, black, short barreled, saddle ammo holder, pistol grip heat shielded weapon of mass destruction.......when the poor "victim" accidentally entered your home at 4:00 AM, mistaking it for a church and wanting to drop off canned goods for the less fortunate.....

The perfect defensive shotgun in my opinion is Winchester Defender 1300.... due to it's large mag capacity and very average looks.......
It is also very reliable from my own experience....

So the best thing in my opinion is to leave the "cool" looking shotgun for the trips to the gun range with your buddies.... and keep the shotgun that resembles a very ugly hiking cane for home defense.....
Remember that the 00 buck dosen't much care which gun it departs from...as long as it gets to depart.....

 

[doc25]

Wow you want a lot from your shotgun. Longer barrel with some choke in it will keep your patterns denser.

Mag fed will make reloads faster. Most mag fed shotguns are less reliable in my opinion than tube fed ones.

Rifled barrel will put the slugs out straighter but screw up your patterns.

Short and light is good but less fun to shoot with slugs unless they are the tactical type/reduced recoil.

Sights are more accurate but a bead is faster (exception maybe ghost ring)
I think you're asking a lot from a single shotgun.

I like 870's but have not tried many others.

Good luck and let us know if you do get it all as it would raise my opinion of the shotgun as a combat firearm.

 

[redleg]

I think your requirements for range are overly optimistic as pointed out above. My own opinion on shotguns is that they are effective because they can be short and light. Go with a pump, stay away from pistol grips or "tactical" stocks, consider ghost rings or a small red dot like the Docter Optik. A 14" barreled, standard stocked Fabarm with a Docter Optik sight weighs in at about 6lbs. It is easy to carry, quick into action, and with either slugs or buck can be used effectively out to 50+ meters.

 

[sixty9santa]

I like to think mine is good to go for home defense, but a rail with red dot and ghost ring sights for back up would be nice as well:

 

[ilovepotatos]

Sixty, remind me not to crash any of your house parties anytime soon!

 

[BlastingChipmunk]

is a laser sight a good idea for close range stuff? Also how usefull is a tac light?

Also, i know my goals are quite high for what a shot gun can do. but I feel the need to have a gun that can reach out a little, i mean im looking for 6 Moa at 200 with a slug, i think that is possible, i have a feeling the buckshot goal will be harder to fufill.

Sixty, Nice gun, it looks very cool.
Just a wandering thought, do they sell any kits to put a high cap box mag on a pump?

Also im Curious about what features you would put into the shotgun too, such as taclight, laser sight, ghostrings, reddot, etc. this isnt limited to traditional things, if you have any ideas on what to put in a shotgun id like to know. thanks guys for the advice so far, and the advice to come.

(is the mossberg mariner worth the extra money? or is the Persuader a better one to get?)

 

[effinggoof]

IMHO, lighting is critical in this type of shotgun.

For a "bear defence/home defence/practical/tactical/social/riot/camp/ shtf/zombpocalypse/euphamisim of your choice" shotgun target identification is very important.

 

[thebigbully]

Just some thoughts.

I went with the "small guy" after being so impressed with my 590A1.

As you can see it has most of the features you want and can do "some" of what you want.

For home defense I don't care about how my weapon looks. I live in an isolated area and if you have managed to bypass the dog, it is obvious you want in.

No#4 shells are what I recommend. I put alot of study and asked many members of different armed forces tons of ques. and narrowed it down to this shell. Will defeat an intruder (who has to intent to get the job done) but will not harm the occupants of the house on the other side of the wall. (try not to make the shot directly at the intruder with your kid on the opposite side of the wall) some pellets may still make it thru. Takes no time to build a mock up of a wall that resembles a wall in your house and make your own deductions. Just remember to do it somewhere safe!!!

As for bear, (which I hnoestly hope never happens) I agree with the 2 loads of shot up first followed by slugs. Thankfully I fish from my boat and pay close attention when I'm fly fishing to my surroundings and don't put myself in a compromising spot. I also have a shot gun holster I wear on my back for these outings, fits over my vest and all I have to do to access it, is reach back behind my head and grab it. It fits like a camel back and I picked it up at Milarm. I think it is a great investment and very practical.

As for your 200m shots... iffy. I run a smooth bore barrel in my gun. I am consistant with Win hollowpoint slugs, 1oz at 100m on a 12"x20" hanging steel plate. And about 70-30% at 150m. This is also off a rest. I have had my buddies do the same thing and they are as close or sometimes closer to my shots so I feel it safe to say you should be able to do the same. If I was worried about a bear at 200m I would just leave the area. Have more fish to catch in this lifetime yet!!! Oh, and before I forget, I installed ghost ring sights on the gun.

Shot guns that take mags means you have to carry extra mags. Tube fed only requires that the tube, the side saddle and in my case the butt be filled. I guess you could fill up you pockets or a bag but to each their own. A loaded front pocket of slugs would start to bug me after about 1min of humping around in the bush.

I had tried to put a flashlight on the gun, but found the recoil too much for the mount to handle. I run the SureFire front grip flashlight on the 590 A1, and smack the hands of everyone who wants to play with it and drain my batteries. My advice (alway remember, take it for what it is) is to have a really good quality and bright headlamp. It's up out of your way and you always have light which ever way your looking. (I also had a hard time getting the gun in and out of the holster with the flashlight on it)

All and all I think I have a great setup, covers all the senarios you mentioned and most importantly I have practiced over and over and over with it for these senarios. Remember mind memory will not let you down when you encounter stress and duress.

Hope this helps.

P

Ps I have to add, the recoil of this is brutall. (with the slugs) But I like brutall!! Putting 5 fast rounds thru this has intmidated more than a few of my buddies. You are in charge of the gun 100% of the time, never let it scare you or make you nervous. Instead try another weapon. I put 50 rounds straight thru my gun and although I had a bruise and a sore shoulder, I had the biggest grin on the range!!!!