Importance of rapid second shot in hunting situations

[OldSavage]

Wow, that guy can cycle a bolt. But the looks of the way he shoots I'm guess he's spent a lot of time behind a shotgun as well.

I never really put much emphasis into the follow up shot, I've also never hunted like this guy has.

I had a TC prohunter years ago, and off the bench it was the best shooting rifle I've yet to fire. In 7mm Rem Mag it gave me the ability to reach out and touch something although the second shot was a little slow. I ended up selling the gun and going to a less accurate bolt I already owned. The follow up shot may not be that important when I'm shooting sub MOA groups off a bench but in the field when conditions are not ideal and I've leaning over a stump or backpack, well that follow up shot means a little more to me. For me it was a need for a bit of insurance because I do not get to practices real hunting situations everyday and wanted to have the option.

 

[Dogleg]

How many people would go hunting with a single cartridge? I'll answer that one, not many. Nobody I know. Even the most adamant of confident shooters, with enviable strings of kills knows deep down that things can go wrong. He admitted that the second that he took more than a single round.

 

[Porkchopsandwhich]

If you're shooting a bolt gun you don't have to wait for gas to cycle the action.

what do most semi autos cycle at fractions of a second

Yes there are advantages to shooting a semi-auto. However, the rate of fire is not an important consideration, when only a couple or 3 rounds are to be fired under field conditions, which means potentially having to recover from heavy recoil, coupled with a moving target that can be obscured by either vegetation or atmospheric conditions like fog or blowing snow. If you're convinced that rate of fire is the ultimate consideration, you should dump your gas gun in favor of a double rifle, as no semi auto can fire as fast as a double, as both barrels can be fired in unison.

Most double rifles I've seen are the price of a new small automobiles and then there is the weight of a second barrel to consider, they do seem to popular for dangerous game/safari hunting where there generally larger caliber, reliably and the difference between of a few seconds can be life or death for the hunter

Under typical big game hunting conditions, the semi auto rifle's biggest advantage is that you don't have to break or adjust your firing grip between shots, and that advantage is huge.

I didn't specially go into some of these details on this in my above post but I agree 100% with you, when shooting my XCR-m I can get back on target and generally see the hit as i am getting ready to shoot a second time (rested shot) no manipulations required just let the trigger reset and i am ready to fire.

Then again if you live in Texas and from a helicopter need to deal with a marauding herd of wild hogs, an AR with a stack of 30 round magazines is probably your best solution.

The dream of hog hunting from a helicopter maybe one day.

An often overlooked advantage is that a semi-auto can't be short stroked in a high stress dangerous game scenario, which is another huge advantage.

Which I am guessing is the reason most dangerous game hunter tend to use double rifles, This comes back to being able to make that follow up shot, tracking or wasting an animal or taking home meat or eating take out.

Most gas operated rifles reduce the felt recoil of firing powerful cartridges, Pounder once had a BAR converted to .458, and it didn't feel much like a .458 or for that matter a .45/70. Ultimately it was an interesting experiment, but didn't seem practical for his purposes, so he went back to his Brno 602. A recoil operated semi-auto though will pound you as hard as any manually operated rifle chambered for the same cartridge though.

Agreed less felt recoil = sight picture re acquisition and faster follow up shot(s).

A recoil operated semi-auto though will pound you as hard as any manually operated rifle chambered for the same cartridge though.

I was under the impression that Benelli semi auto Shotguns and some Beretta rifles used a recoil operated system? can anyone speak to there recoil?

The primary disadvantage of semi-auto rifles is an almost universally poor trigger, and attempting to improve it usually messes with the piece's reliability.

I think that is some what subjective to an extent, low to mid grade bolt guns wont likely beat a match grade Geissele or Timney but perhaps i just lack experience with high end bolt gun triggers. I was out shooting one of my SKS's yesterday and i did think to my self god does this thing have a terrible trigger it has a mushier reset then a glock

I've sold a few bolt guns that I was unable to tweak the trigger on or was unable to find an good after market trigger for, and because I'm admittedly anal about the importance of a good trigger, I'm not much of a gas gun guy. Having said that, I do own a few at the moment, including an expensive AR, which shoots sub MOA but doing so is a challenge with that trigger.

A secondary disadvantage of the semi-auto is the fewer chambering options that are available in factory rifles compared to bolt guns. A BAR in .375 Ruger might be interesting for example, but you won't find one any time soon. Since the BAR is available in .338 Winchester, the problem isn't dramatic though. Personally I don't consider reliability a weak point in a quality semi-auto rifle. Machinery does repetitive tasks with far greater precision and reliability than people can, in all sorts of applications, and cycling the action of a firearm is a pretty simple task. All it asks is that the firearm be in good mechanical conditions and the ammunition be dimensionally uniform and produce enough energy on firing to fully cycle the action.

The most common calibers used to hunt are available

The bottom line is that semi-autos can be an excellent sporting rifles for the fellows who appreciate them, but they aren't for everyone.

Depends what you're hunting. I suppose for most of us it's one animal, one shot ideally.

But for other game, you might need to take more than one shot. Regardless, who needs a semi....

Some times you don't hit vitals, sometimes you need to shoot right away or risk never seeing that wounded animal again.

Actually, I have a few bolts and a few semis and like them all. Would use them in different circumstances. But looks like a semi is absolutely not necessary to get off a second shot!

In the video he takes his first shot at 01:03, 01:09, 01:19, 01:26, 01:37, 01:42 and 01:50 seven aimed shots in 0:43 seconds 6.13 seconds a shot half of which is spent cycling the action.

 

[Porkchopsandwhich]

this has been posted before but shows how a bolt can be worked if your rifle is up to the task

I didn't know the Aussies can even have SKS's or semi autos for that matter.

 

[Dogleg]

I didn't know the Aussies can even have SKS's or semi autos for that matter.

[/QUOTE]

Those who go through the trouble of getting culling licences and such can get them. More and more people are learning the hoops to jump through.

You can basically add a zero to whatever you'd pay for an SKS here.

 

[Brian46]

Wow, that guy can cycle a bolt. But the looks of the way he shoots I'm guess he's spent a lot of time behind a shotgun as well.

I never really put much emphasis into the follow up shot, I've also never hunted like this guy has.

I had a TC prohunter years ago, and off the bench it was the best shooting rifle I've yet to fire. In 7mm Rem Mag it gave me the ability to reach out and touch something although the second shot was a little slow. I ended up selling the gun and going to a less accurate bolt I already owned. The follow up shot may not be that important when I'm shooting sub MOA groups off a bench but in the field when conditions are not ideal and I've leaning over a stump or backpack, well that follow up shot means a little more to me. For me it was a need for a bit of insurance because I do not get to practices real hunting situations everyday and wanted to have the option.

Another Video

They are pretty much all using sauer 202 rifles in 7mmMag. I would love to go there for a hunt like this.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

I hunt the dense woods of Ontario, where terrain as much as trees can make a deer or moose disappear in the blink of an eye. Easily 90% of my game animals have fallen to one shot. However, I would never limit myself to that. I shoot until the game falls, or disappears from sight. Tracking game is not always easy, particularly on bare rock, or through watery swamps. I've never been a semi auto user, (for long anyway) but that's a personal thing. I use levers, and bolts, and occasionally pumps. I like a fast follow up, 'specially if I'm walking, and likely to have game jump up at close range and vanish. The lever gun will always be my choice.

 

[Fudge Monkey]

The gentleman rapid firing the .50 cal is hero!
BTW is there a hog epidemic in states? Are those killed in these videos eaten?
/Resume topic

 

[OldSavage]

Wow, those 202's are bad ass. I need to sell my 22-250 and 7mm and buy one of these haha (and kick in a little more).

Who needs a semi?

 

[Ardent]

It ain't the rifle... I've had a 202, and trust me that video is all shooter. It's no better than any other bolt action, and worse than some, though it does have great mags.

 

[OldSavage]

Definitely not saying the rifle has anything to do with that fine shooting but they are impressive rifle on appearances alone.

It ain't the rifle... I've had a 202, and trust me that video is all shooter. It's no better than any other bolt action, and worse than some, though it does have great mags.

 

[Brian46]

It ain't the rifle... I've had a 202, and trust me that video is all shooter. It's no better than any other bolt action, and worse than some, though it does have great mags.

I have a 202 and other bolt guns, A smoth action sure helps with follow up shots

 

[burnt_servo]

it is probably more important to keep a live round in the chamber than having a fast second shot .

I've seen more than a few guys take their first shot , then stare at the animal , then realise they need a second shot , only to be fumbling trying to cycle the action .

 

[Boomer]

it is probably more important to keep a live round in the chamber than having a fast second shot .

I've seen more than a few guys take their first shot , then stare at the animal , then realise they need a second shot , only to be fumbling trying to cycle the action .

This is the point i was trying to make. Most of us aren't Jerry Miculek, yet many of us could approach the performance the fellow with the bolt gun managed on the hogs, given the opportunity and a good rifle. In this case a good rifle being one with a bolt that is easily manipulated, so a worn out Lee Enfield would perform better than a new Savage Axis. Would a semi-auto have been an advantage in that situation? Perhaps, but little time was lost cycling the action, and the semi-auto shooter would still have to find his next target (which is moving quickly and partially obscured), lead it, and break the shot. The advantage the semi-auto guy has is that he doesn't break his firing grip to cycle the action, but this hunter's performance is not diminished by such an apparent disadvantage. An interesting point in the pig video is that the animals are all clean kills, and he doesn't need to loiter on any single target to make a second shot.

 

[stubblejumper]

An interesting point in the pig video is that the animals are all clean kills, and he doesn't need to loiter on any single target to make a second shot.

Exactly, he is taking well aimed shots, rather than resorting to the "spray and pray" method used by some people.

 

[canadaman30]

Exactly, he is taking well aimed shots, rather than resorting to the "spray and pray" method used by some people.

Yeah, the guys with semi-auto's right..............

 

[track]

Great videos, lots of action, superb marksmanship and no commercials! Besides the shooters being hunters, I wonder if they are also military/police snipers? Maybe the OP had learned something.............a bolt action can be used for follow-up, however; practice, practice, practice.

 

[rookie wildcat]

Well, I like bolt guns. Try to have near perfect set-ups and fast shooting like that in the videos would be beyond me. I cycle the bolt quickly, but take my time on placement. Needing second shots are rare for me. In the last 15 years I have shot 3 animals more than once.


A large whitetail buck in an area I had previously lost a deer my wife had gut shot ... Not much space and when the heart shot didn't seem to affect him more than cause him to turn away, he got another. First one blew away the heart. Second took liver, left lung, shoulder. Both killed him just couldn't wait.


A cow moose, broadside 250yds. One through the heart. She went 200yds before we found her didn't drop. Another lungs. She went 25yds or so and fell down. Finishing shot to the head. Took us ALL DAY to get her out.


Cow moose two years ago. Double lung, 250yds. Swapped ends looking for the wood line, no way was that happening again! One through both shoulders. She laid down on the edge of the woods. Then her brother shows up and GETS HER ON HER FEET! She took a step into the wood line, not wanting to, but takes another. Meanwhile, I am out of my stand, tearing across thus cut until I am 100yds away. Tiny bull is threatening me. I take a knee and all I have is a Texas heart shot, which I will NEVER take. I yell, she turns her head to look at me, one between the eyes.


I STILL had to cut down a tree to get her out!! Yep only animals get two shots are ones that don't drop right then!

 

[captonion]

When you get the opportunity to take multiple animals I like fast follow ups.

 

[rookie wildcat]

Yep. 15 minutes after I got out of my truck on Tues Nov 6, 2012.

69 minutes after I left the house and back in the garage Sat 05 Nov, 2011

Yep, fast cycling of the bolt without lowering the rifle when multiple targets present themselves is a pretty good idea.