importing black powder

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balou77

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Does anyone know if I can purchase BP from the United states? And if so are there any problems brining it across the Canadian Border?

I have tried to look on some web sites but I am having trouble finding any helpful info.

So if anybody can help me out with some information it would be appreciated
thanks to all those who help!!
 
Check the stickies in Legalese.

It had been mentioned that there was a personal allowance in effect that allowed up to 8 pounds of Black Powder to come across, but it had to be hand carried, not shipped.

In human terms, if you are not importing enough that you already know the drill, you are not going to save enough to make it worth while, unless you are already there in the US for another reason. Even then, most of their prices are not stunningly different than what we are paying, from what I gather.

A pound of black is $25-30 or so. You'll eat far more than the savings on Hazmat and brokerage, if you can find a shipper that will touch a cross border trip with explosives. Heck, factoring in the fees and charges, if it was free, it's still more trouble and cost than it's worth!

If you are driving down, it may be worthwhile to look for some, if you can get it clear that you are allowed to a. Legally posses it in the US, b). Export it from the US, and c). import it legally into Canada (probably the easiest part).

Use the search function.

Cheers
Trev
 
You can bring 8Kg's of black powder back through Canada Customs every time you return with no restrictions. Oh, you may find an officer who wants to collect the GST and PST but that's small potatos compared to the savings and you will pay that here anyway. The last I purchased there about three months ago was $12.95 for Goex and $20.95 for Swiss. Now....Goex at my home store here is $32.00 per pound and he won't even stock Swiss as the price would be prohibitive (his words). Now, just for arguments sake....8Kg's is 17.6 pounds so, if you bring seventeen pounds it is $220.15. Purchasing that same quantity at my local store is $544.00. A savings of $323.85. Now, before someone starts in on me....why do we pay more as Canadians????? Many factors come into play but the main one is that we pay more because we will!!!! Historically we have been charged more for goods for many years. But, lets not cloud the facts with politics. Saving $323.85. If the price is close on an item I buy in Canada. I can also tell you that I have checked US Customs and they have no restriction on black powder coming into Canada from the US.
 
NOT US Customs, NOT Canadian Customs....
Check out Homeland Security with regards to "Explosives"
being purchased by foreign aliens, yes you are a foreign alien in the US
John
 
Danforth is almost correct: Canada Customs told me 15 pounds was the limit and must be in containers not larger than one pound each. The cost of shipping relatively small quantities as well as the Cdn explosives storage and handling regs really bumps our prices, I'd guess. USA prices are half of what we have top pay, if you can ignore the currency exchange rate.

Ol' Flinter
 
Check ATF Web site. There are exemptions for Antique firearms . Flintlocks and Percusion with related items.
You may find an exemption re Black Powder etc in their literature. It even details the 10ml by savage as covered by Gun Control Act of 1968 as it burns smokless powder.

Best to call ATF .
 
johnone said:
NOT US Customs, NOT Canadian Customs....
Check out Homeland Security with regards to "Explosives"
being purchased by foreign aliens, yes you are a foreign alien in the US
John
Click to expand...


I have talked to BATF, you are an alien in the US, and it is illegal to possess BP, because it is listed as an explosive.

So, only a US citizen can bring 8kg's of BP into Canada.
Cheers nessy.
 
Track of the Wolf, offers free shipping in 25 pound lots. Have it shipped near your border crossing and go pick it up with friends. Check the latest US regs on aliens first. Antiques and their accessories should not be a problem.
The Custer Sportsman Club has a link to US regs.
 
sail32 said:
Track of the Wolf, offers free shipping in 25 pound lots. Have it shipped near your border crossing and go pick it up with friends. Check the latest US regs on aliens first. Antiques and their accessories should not be a problem.
The Custer Sportsman Club has a link to US regs.
Click to expand...

This would be a criminal offence to possess black powder in the US as stated in my last post ?
I would suggest Sail32 that you read the CGN rules, before making a stement like that.
Just to re-iterate what I said, A Canadian cannot be in possession of black powder in the USA.
 
Revised: 8/06/07

A. GENERAL QUESTIONS

(A1) Does the law regulate who can be in the business? [Back]


Yes. The Gun Control Act (GCA), administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) of the Department of Justice, contains Federal licensing standards for various firearms businesses (manufacturers, importers, and dealers).

An example of these standards is that the applicant must have a business premises.
[18 U.S.C. 923(d), 27 CFR 478.47]





(A2) Does the Federal Government issue a license or permit to carry a concealed weapon? [Back]


No. Neither ATF nor any other Federal agency issues such a permit or license. Carrying permits may be issued by a State or local government.



(A3) Do antique firearms come within the purview of the GCA? [Back]


No.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3) and (16), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.141(d)]



(A4) What kinds of ammunition are covered by the GCA? [Back]

Ammunition includes cartridge cases, primers, bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm.

Items NOT covered include blank ammunition, tear gas ammunition, pellets and nonmetallic shotgun hulls without primers.

Generally, no records are required for ammunition transactions. However, information about the disposition of armor piercing ammunition is required to be entered into a record by importers, manufacturers, and collectors.

A license is not required for dealers in ammunition only.

ANTIQUES are not covered under GCA NOR IS PROPELLANT POWDER FOR USE IN ANTIQUE

R28) I am a nonimmigrant alien. Do I need a Form 6 NIA import permit to import a muzzle loading gun that is considered an antique firearm under the Gun Control Act?

No. Because antique firearms are not considered firearms for purposes of the Gun Control Act, none of the import regulations apply to the importation of antique firearms. Moreover, a nonimmigrant alien may possess antique firearms, even if the alien does not fall within an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition. If you are not sure if your firearm is an antique firearm as defined by the Gun Control Act, contact ATF's Firearms Technology Branch.
 
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Topic is can I purchase BP from the US

balou77 said:
Does anyone know if I can purchase BP from the United states? And if so are there any problems brining it across the Canadian Border?

I have tried to look on some web sites but I am having trouble finding any helpful info.

So if anybody can help me out with some information it would be appreciated
thanks to all those who help!!
Click to expand...

Just to keep on track, muzzleloaders and antiques are different ballgame.
From the BATF website. Note ! BP is an explosive.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/pdf/E8-31179.pdf
 
I'll bite. If a flint lock is not a firearm re GCA or by ATF regs and no form 6 required for import for hunting or target shooting. What are the individuals then going to shoot if non alien can not possess black powder in the USA ?

GCA defines ammunition. Items used in antiques are not deemed as ammunition by CGA and ATF. Black powder is an explosive. So no muzzle shooting in the USA for Canadians?
or export only of black powder used in antiques.
 
Buck45 said:
I'll bite. If a flint lock is not a firearm re GCA or by ATF regs and no form 6 required for import for hunting or target shooting. What are the individuals then going to shoot if non alien can not possess black powder in the USA ?

GCA defines ammunition. Items used in antiques are not deemed as ammunition by CGA and ATF. Black powder is an explosive. So no muzzle shooting in the USA for Canadians?
or export only of black powder used in antiques.
Click to expand...

Buck 45 , these are very good questions, but as I stated above, that isn't the topic. Best thing to do, is start a new thread .
Cheers nessy.
 
nessy357 said:
I have talked to BATF, you are an alien in the US, and it is illegal to possess BP, because it is listed as an explosive.

So, only a US citizen can bring 8kg's of BP into Canada.
Cheers nessy.
Click to expand...

It is an explosive but ATF does not regulate amounts under 50 lbs. For listed uses under TITLE 18 USC SECTION 845 ATTACHED. ANTIQUE FIREARMS EXEMPTION. Hence relief from GCA AND ATF regulations for non immigrant aliens. If you had 50. 1 lbs then required relief for possession of explosives.
Under 50 no licence required. Though it is an explosive. Black powder in listed amounts is not ammunition.

845. Exceptions; relief from disabilities


(a) Except in the case of subsections (!1) (l), (m), (n), or (o) of section 842 and subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, this chapter shall not apply to: (1) any aspect of the transportation of explosive materials via railroad, water, highway, or air which are regulated by the United States Department of Transportation and agencies thereof, and which pertain to safety; (2) the use of explosive materials in medicines and medicinal agents in the forms prescribed by the official United States Pharmacopeia, or the National Formulary; (3) the transportation, shipment, receipt, or importation of explosive materials for delivery to any agency of the United States or to any State or political subdivision thereof; (4) small arms ammunition and components thereof; (5) commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds, percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers, intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in section 921(a)(16) of title 18 of the United States Code, or in antique devices as exempted from the term "destructive device" in section 921(a)(4) of title 18 of the United States Code;
 
Have purchased black powder and smokeless powder at the Walmart in Minot North Dakota and brought back to Saskatchewan no problem, showed Customs the bills and everything, all they did was charge me the duty on it, didn't even want to look, as it was all listed on the receipt, now either they didn't know or don't give a damn, although they did catch an American trying to come through Canada on his way to Alaska with a crap load of full auto firearms without claiming them.
So I guess it may depend on the ports of entry
 
BINGO ! Thanks buck45, can you post the link to that pls. for future ref.?
I talked to a supervisor in W.Virginia less than a year ago, the call was pre-arranged. Her answer was no alien can posses BP as it is listed as an explosive.
Your sleuthing skills are pretty good.

milshooter, Canada Customs allows each person to bring in 8kg's back into the country.

Cheers nessy.
 
I went to US Federal Law Library online. US TITLE 18 SECTION 845 AND 921 DEAL WITH MOST OF ATF STUFF.
Homeland has a package that explains it but I can't get it uploaded to CGN from my favourites on my computer

PM me and I'll send it to you.

ATF says you can buy ammo in the states if you have hunting licence plus you have your form 6 etc but not export it. Hence you get stuck short you can buy ammo while hunting target shooting but no export it when done. Black powder for antiques is not ammunition. But propellants cases primers and bullets are.

Antiques are not firearms and their propellant is not classified as ammunition. You can't get a form 6 for a flintlock as it is exempted. GTA 1968. ATF REGS. The powder for flints and other antiques is not classified as ammuntion by GTA or ATF. Black powder is an explosive but under 50 lbs no permit required. Over 50 lbs then you better not be an alien in possession without a permit.

I was at three gun dealers in Michigan about 2 years ago. All of them could sell me an antique ie flintlock as GTA ATF regulations do not cover ANTIQUES and the 90 day residency requirement is waived. As Antiques are not firearms GTA nor is the powder for them ammunition. I didn't buy anything though. As I have 2 already. The warning is the Savage 10ml as it uses smokless and Thompson as it can flip to cartridge re barrel exchange. Covered by GTA are firearms.

Thats why you can have shipped a flintlock to Canada. I also understand thats how fellows that do reinactments cross the border without paper and get black powder for their shoots.
 
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