Importing "Gunsmith's" lathe?

tiriaq said:
Quick change gearbox - yes, not having to set up the gear train manually for each different thread or feed rate. Threading dial is usually on the right side of the apron, revolves driven by the leadscrew, has a scale so that you know when to close the half nuts when cutting threads. Makes thread cutting a lot easier.
Be careful with a forklift, lathes have high centres of gravity. The manual for the S-M recommends using slings under the bed, lifting from above, rather than below.
Often a large machine can be cheaper than a small one because moving it is intimidating. If the proper equipment isn't available, pay a professional. Had to move a 16" SB with an 8' bed down a flight of stairs once. Disassembled it, had professionals do it. It was still scary. Fortunately there was an I beam in the room and I used a chainfall to reassemble the lathe.
Click to expand...
I hope that you don't have to move it again!!:D
 
It was still there when I left the business. Never did ask what became of it. I would guess that planks would have been placed on the stairs, and a winch used to draw the pieces up. I moved the 1600 lb S-M around my shop (concrete floor) on rollers. Its pedestals have large flat plate bottoms. It is remarkably easy to move, even alone. Roll a few inches, start another roller, repeat. Angle the rollers to change direction. Something like a SB with cast iron pedestal base would be a different kettle of fish. The point is that these things are heavy, rather narrow, and have a high centre of gravity. If one starts to tip, you aren't going to stop it.
 
My rule of machine shops is NO STAIRS. I worked in one that yoy couldn't go 10 feet without going up or down stairs. When I left, I said any shop I had would have a big roll-up door and no stairs.
 
you will be forever sorry if you buy a piece of junk tai or china lathe. look for an older american or british lathe, usually come with a lot of tooling. the bigger they are, the better. the colchester that was mentioned earlier would have been a fabulous machine. older lathes are usually very cheap also and dont buy it if it does not have chucks, steady rest and taper attachment as they are almost impossible to get for an old lathe. good hunting
 
I have to disagree with Skit.

You may be sorry or you may not. It depends on the particular model and price range that you shop in.

The old brand names are pretty attractive machines, except that most of them saw industrial service, and tend to be quite worn. If you cannot tell the difference between a worn lathe and a unworn one, or assess the lathe on its own merits on an individual basis, stick to the new ones.

Condition trumps brand name every time.

I can pretty much guaruntee that you will be just as dissapointed in a clapped out 50 year old machine that you cannot fix, as you will with a too-cheap, built-to-a-price Asian import. The quality has been rising and the real price dropping on the Chinese machines, to the extent that the prices are actually in a bit of a downswing on the used market. The "industrial" sized Chinese machines are much better built than the "hobby" sized ones, too.

Shop price AND condition!

Cheers
Trev
 
If you frequent the US home machinist boards, Grizzly, as a company, has a pretty good reputation.
I know of 2 serious 'smiths who use "Grip" brand import lathes.
I, too, have heard that the larger Chinese machines are better than the home workshop lathes.
I almost bought a Grip lathe from KBC Tools. Just about the time when a decision had to be made, a helpful individual on CGN told me about the Standard-Modern 1340 (Canadian made, 13" swing, 40" centres, 1600 lbs.) which I bought. Most of my previous experience has been on 3 South Bends and a Sebastian. The S-M is a much nicer machine than any of those. It is very smooth, the controls are convenient. Thread cutting is a pleasure. Even though it is 20 odd years old, there is very little backlash - under .005" - in the cross and compound feeds. I am not a machinst, my machine tool experience is limited to gunsmithing. By the time the lathe was moved, set up and some necessary tooling purchased, it was not cheap - about the cost of an Oriental of similar size and weight. S-Ms have a fine reputation. The current production version of the machine is over $12 000. I could never have justified that sort of expenditure.
As far as older North American machines go, a SB heavy 10 would be an excellent gunsmithing lathe, if you can find one that isn't worn.
 
the manual chinhung (chinese I think?) lathe I use most often is a sturdy and accurate machine, and FAR better than the smaller american made lathe I have in my garage. If youre going to be doing threading, you dont want to be changing gears by hand, it gets to be a pain in the ass. quick change thread gearing and a thread dial especially are must have. independant cutting feed and thread feed systems are recommended, as it saves even more time (obviously cutting feed should also be quick change). its much easier to get consistant finishes on longer workpieces with cutting feed engaged than feeding by hand. quick change toolposts are handy, but realistically for manual work, I prefer a standard square bolt-down toolpost (faster toolchanges, but limited to 4 sides). if youre gonna use more than 3-4 turning tools, the quickchange then becomes practical. also, if you plan to work with square workpieces (no doubt you will), you will also need a 4 jaw chuck (most lathes come with a 3 jaw chuck). try to find a good sized lathe with all these things, and remember that tooling is going to cost lots, so dont blow all your money on getting a lathe loaded with fancy and useless features.
 
My lathe is Chinese as well. It doesn't have a quick change gear box and I have to change the back gears manually. It is almost an exact copy of a Bridgeport and may even be made on the old manufactureing equipment.
It is very accurate if I do my part and as far as time goes, well I'm not in a production shop where every minute counts. Back gears do have some advantages, though I will admit not many. The quick change box is definitely handier.
Spindle sizes of 1 1/4 inches and larger would be reccomended and center to center distances of 36+ inches as well as at least a 6 inch or larger chuck. The more powerful the motor the better, there's nothing more aggravateing than an underpowered piece of equipment or one with slipping belts (usually easily tensioned). bearhunter
 
A 4 jaw chuck is important if you are going to do any chambering with the barrel run through the spindle. You can centre the bore precisely. In addition, you can easily hold other than round objects, or work off centre. Fortunately 4 jaw chucks are less expensive than 3 jawed ones.
 
Collets are fast and accurate. I've used a collet chuck with Rubberflex collets. If the collet set uses a drawbar (not a collet chuck) the bore diameter of the draw bar can become a factor for barrel work.
 
Lathe

I have a busy bee craftex B2229 16x20 inch lathe/mill. It works great. the spindle bore is 1 1/8. The attached mill works like a charm and has power cross feed. I bought the extending block for the mill table after as I found that it was required. Hope this helps.
 
B2229, I had that one for a while. I really liked it, particularly the lathe part. But in the end I got rid of it and have spent the last 2 years looking for something to replace it.

Old iron of any kind is hard to find. A lot of Canadian dealers are way overpriced. They want 2 grand for a small southbend, when you can find 6 on ebay for 400 dollar-700 dollars. But the reality is I can't find a decent used machinery seller in the GTA. Right now there are a lot of shops being dismantled, but they make no efort to sell anything locally.
 
Auctions are the places to buy machines, forget the dealers. I have regulary bought machines for 5 cents on the dollar, especially if you buy direct from a plant closure. Look at the aircraft maintenence industry.
 
They look similar. The Grizzly, as you can read , is supposed to be equiped with additional features and quality to fascilitate barrel work etc... But some of those could doubtless be fitted or ignored, like the torque wrench on the tailstock, not a big issue. The only problem would be if there are quality differences that aren't obvious online. The Grizzly pres is interested in various hobbies like guitars and guns, and he has added specialty machines in those areas. I would trust him to get those machines right since it affects his personal credibility. But that's the kind of thing I can only afford to buy on the basis of if I could actually get the machines at a reasonable price.

My story ended happily for now. I located a good ebay sale for a south bend, and I went down to the US to pick it up. In the process I was charged with a misdemeanor driving without a license in NY state due to poor record keeping in Albany. Almost ended up in jail. When that got straightened out I eventually got my machine, in fact I bought up some additional stock so I now how 3 SB lathes. I also got a nice horizontal milling machine. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to use any of these as I had to go out of the province for work shortly after, and won't be back home for a few more months.
 
Well done on getting another South Bend. They are hard to come by these days.

Here's what I found after a month of deep searching. Most "American Iron" is still in the USA [no surprise] and becoming rare to find in reasonable shape. I'm not interested in restoration projects and many need it badly. With the advent of CNC machines, these Bench/Engine type lathes will become even more rare. I also found that some people buy retired/deceased gunsmiths lathes and equipment and basically never use them. They just sit in garages collecting dust. I also found there are some people who actually collect these old lathes just to have 3 or 4 of them and never use them also. I had no idea that people actually collect them as a hobby. So that almost kills finding "American Iron" as it's been hoarded and exhausted.

Being from Canada, getting those American lathes complicates it further. Here we have UK/European lathes, that are overpriced and most are in sad shape too. The Asian lathes are all the rage these days and the price is right for brand new, no doubt. The complaints about these are hit and miss. Some work well from the get-go and some just need parts replaced and tweaking to get it to run correctly or send the whole machine back for replacement. That is my only option for a limited budget and time.

Here's the catch. I can find better deals in the USA even with the exchange. Why should I pay $1,000 or more for basically the same machine. I do have the ability to pickup the machine via 18 wheeler and delivered to my home at no cost to me. I even have a forklift available to get it off.

Seems to me that these Grizzly Gunsmith lathes, especially the G4003G model which I'm keen on offers a whole lot of options that the other look-a-likes US or Can based don't. Convince me to buy one from KBC and I'll listen to you. Patriotic arguements don't count.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4003G

or

http://www.kbctools.com/can/main.cfm

Model Grip 1236E
Just go to Machinery, Lathes
 
I know an excellent gunsmith, who builds up precision rifles, who uses the Grip 1236 and is satisfied with it.
Moving any lathe larger than a 9" or 10K SB, 10" or 12" Atlas, etc. is going to be interesting. If you have access to a truck, forklift, etc., you are away to the races. If you have to pay to have it done, shipping does become an issue. A neighbouring business had the equipment, and moved my S-M, but it wasn't a freeby.
If an import lathe is purchased, you really want to get it from an established company, who is in a position to provide support. If you buy used, and the mfr. no longer exists, or the machine is an old one, long out of production, finding parts can be an adventure. An new import will have some sort of a warranty, with any used machine you are probably on your own. Keep in mind that a decent quality machine tool is built to last, so unless it has been abused, or just plain used up in an industrial setting, a used machine should be just fine for hobby or professional gunsmithing.
 
busy bee lathes are available locally in ottawa they have a full store with all the lathes your heart could desire.. some with dual sprayers
 
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