Improving a 22LR hollow point......

Are you guys serious? Did you even bother to read what this thread is all about?:slap:

Yah it's about a bunch of bubbahs standing around trying to think up ways of...
A) Waisting money.
B) Waisting time.
C) Re inventing the wheel.

:rolleyes:

Seriously buy another type of ammunition. :slap:
 
My idea of improving the damage done with a .22LR? Shoot 'em twice.

With the volume of gophers I shoot in one day, It would take me two weeks to fill the HP with a liquid or grease or whatever.

But hey - whatever floots yer boot!
 
Yah it's about a bunch of bubbahs standing around trying to think up ways of...
A) Waisting money.
B) Waisting time.
C) Re inventing the wheel.

:rolleyes:

Seriously buy another type of ammunition. :slap:

A) Waisting money. You mean shooting is waisting money. Do you have some whales to save? WWCF is still accepting donations.
B) Waisting OUR time, would be more appropriate. And right now you're in the game too, if you know what I mean...
C) That bears on the fact that one needs or wants a wheel. It's on a personal basis, maybe you like to walk more.... so do it by focusing your attention to other more stringent things you have to do.

I don't mean to be excessively rude, but I believe your patronizing habits have taken over in the wrong spot at the wrong time.
 
Loving the typos, all!

Anyhow, the truth of the matter is, this is the kind of thing that people can do during their non-shooting time (e.g. TV's on and you're capable of doing two or more things at once). It's fun, gives people a chance to be creative, and is hopefully harmless. Come to think of it, isn't that what plinking is all about in the first place - fun, harmless, and sometimes creative experiences?

The fact that people in this thread are actually bothering to experiment only proves to me that they view a standard factory hollowpoint as an excuse to be innovative and fiddle-around; if the history of wildcat cartridges and bullet-forming methods is any indicator, this should not be viewed as a bad thing...

Edit: I just started fiddling with Remington Golden's. First stop: Dremel tool. Pics to follow.
 
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Zero

Zero:

The exact amount of time I would spend fiddling with, trying to improve or otherwise "####" with 22LR ammo.

It sounds like the answer to this conundrum is the 17HMR.

IMO. Only. YMMV. TKS.
 
Waiting....waiting......

Sheesh! I get less flack from the folks in the office...

:)

Anyhow, I have yet to get access to a good digital camera, so I've used the one on my cell phone to take some truly horrid ones. They follow below and, yes, I will take better pictures soon!

Okay, here goes:

Image000.jpg



A truly horrid picture but, from left to right, a 'normal' CB Long, one "Acu'rzed" CB Long (you can see the glint off the 'basin'), a 'Nastinose' CB Long (yes, it is the middle round - it is possible and you can somewhat see the hollowpoint), a "Baby Scorp'n" CB Long (deceptive - it looks unformed even when I stare at it up-close, but it is indeed re-formed), and my personal favourite - a flattened/Acu'rzed Baby Scorp'n Nastinose CB Long (3 mallet-whacks total on this one round). It is the one on the extreme right and you can just make out the hollowpoint on it, I hope.

Hmm. In a state of chagrin, I also took some others with the cell phone to try to show the effect on an individual CB Long:

Image005.jpg


A "Nastinose" hollowpointed CB Long. The hollowpoint is actually worth something, even on the shorter CB Long. A word to the wise; when hollow-pointing the CB Long, seat/insert the round fully into the .224 end.

Image006.jpg


Some Remington Goldens. Same formula, left to right (one normal round, one "Nastinose" round that was not first "Acu'rzed", one "Acu'rzed" round that was then turned into a "Nastinose" round - this is the middle one and you can see what a difference it makes to "Acu'rize" a round prior to using the other two forming rounds, one "Baby Scorp'n" Rem Golden: if you squint you can see that it looks like it has two rims - like two cocentric circles which proved to me that using the "Baby Scorp'n" tool on factory-hollowpoints is not a bad idea, and one flattened/Acu'rzed Baby Scorp'n Nastinose Remington Golden round which - truth be told - looks like a deep hollowpoint surround by tiny shrapnel and again surrounded with the original rim of the cartridge).

And the tool itself:

Image007.jpg


If you look at the cylinder, you can see the left side has 3 bands (to re-shape to .223) and the right side has 4 bands (to reshape to .224). Again, I really recommend the .224 for re-forming CB Longs.

Okay, so now all that is left to do is shoot them off and pick up the pieces...

:)

By the way, I'll be using a Rem Nylon 66 as the first test platform until I fix up a Cooey 39; I don't want to potentially screw-up the barrel of my existing rimfires just yet (caution not yet to the wind). I like the idea of testing with the Nylon because (a) it's pretty old and much-used; I got on the cheap, (b) I want to see if the re-formed rounds will still allow a semi-automatic to cycle.

Oh, and why use this thing? It's just plain fun - I can do a box of fifty in 15 minutes, going at a leisurely pace in front of the television. Not to mention the silly grin I get on my face re-shaping ammo with my own two hands. When I get access to a better digital camera (my younger brother took the one I usually use when he left to med school abroad), I'll show you some of my more "horrifying" re-forms...

;)

Right, right, right. Why not drill out factory hollowpoints? Well, I did that too before the tool arrived, but I've stopped now for 3 reasons:

(a) I lost weight on the bullets (not my own mass, more's the pity) by drilling them out, and there is not that much to start with (okay, this is a minor point, as not that much material was lost),

(b) that only works with (usually 38-grain) factory-hollowpoints (not to belabour the 'loss of bullet weight point), and a brick of American Eagle 40-grain solids were just screaming to be "prettied-up", and

(c) the tool just seemed more precise. I used 5/64, 3/32 and 7/64 drill bits to deepen and widen Remington Goldens, but I wasn't ready to use the 1/8 bit because of over-sizing concerns. It's one thing to re-shape a round from in-front/the outside, but a 1/8 bit is already .125 and that's from the inside of the round..

Anyhow, hope this somewhat slakes the thirst of the picture-cravers.

P.S. Short answer? It works on CB Longs, el Torro. Just ask for the .223/.224 tool, at least (other sizes include .222 and .225).

:);):);):);):)
 
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Wonderful.... Thanks for the post.
When are you heading out for a field test? I'm very interested in the performance with the new HP. Especially on CB.
I went gopher hunting today and one CB long managed to take two critters at once. First through the head and second in the chest. The second one required a finishing shot... but I was impressed with the performance.
 
Thanks, cyclone, excellent post.
If I had time, I would probably experiment with that paco tool as well.
BTW, put a Want To Buy ad in the Exchange forum for a digi camera:)
 
Cyclone...have you fired those bullets?
Did you notice any change in accuracy?

I feel a test is needed. Can you run -let's say - 3 groups of each and test the accuracy against the original ones?

One more .... how's the grease/wax doing in the reshaping process? Any problems with leading the bbl?
 
Cyclone...have you fired those bullets?

Yes.

Did you notice any change in accuracy?

I was way too giddy and shot w/o a rest - but I will shoot some groups for accuracy soon.

I feel a test is needed. Can you run -let's say - 3 groups of each and test the accuracy against the original ones?

That would be good - soon.

One more .... how's the grease/wax doing in the reshaping process? Any problems with leading the bbl?

I've yet to do wax - now if someone would arrange for me to get that Cooey 39 I've patiently put on my wish list... ;)

Okay, so what HAVE I done? Oh, how I ask myself that question far too often. Anyhow, I tried each of the CCI CB Long's I mentioned in my previous post, all on what shall no doubt arise in a pseudo-lawsuit against me: the CB Board o' Truth.

First up - a look at the board:

CBBoardoTruth-9.jpg


Note the many .177 pellet markings that have scarred the Board in the past (this board is also my pellet-rifle backstop). The Board is about 2 cm thick, and will almost always prevent a CCI CB Long from penetrating its width. A regular CCI CB Long, that is. ;) Anyhow, here's the make-up of the Board:

SideView-CBBoardoTruth-11.jpg


It's some kind of sandwich board, still 2 cm thick. It seems like 3/4 of a inch, but that's eyeballing it. Here's some random CB plinking on the Board, with one really odd shot at the bottom:

CBPlinkingwithaSighter-10.jpg


The CB Long's seem to group well at shorter-ranges. And, to prove I can hit the broad-side of a barn, here's my test shot for the session - a single, unformed CCI CB Long:

RegularCB-1.jpg


That's headshot-quality from an unformed one. But what are the benefits of a tap of the tool? Keep in mind that this was NOT shooting for accuracy - in fact, I was trying to keep the shots somewhat apart from each other as I was actually testing for penetration this time out, and I did not want any results "benefiting" from the impacts of their previous brethren. Here is the Acu'rzr'ed CB Long, next to the unformed bullseye shot:

RegularCBvs.ACURZRedCB2.jpg


Nice grouping, albeit unintentionally so. The two shots were about 1 cm or 1/3 of an inch apart. The entry hole for the Acu'rzr'ed CB Long was a little larger and more pronounced, the impact on the target (the only audible noise when firing these from my Rem 512 boltie) was a little louder, and the smile on my face was perking up. Here's an "up-close" of the Acu'rzr'ed shot to the bottom-right of that bullseye:

ACURZRedCB-3.jpg


But what of the Nastinose CB? Can you really hollowpoint a CB Long, and will it do anything? Let's see:

NastinoseCB-4.jpg


I don't recall the noise of the impact from this shot, but I do recall thinking that something unusual had happened. If you strain your eyes to look around the entry-point, you'll notice a small, discoloured circle that indicated to me something was amiss. But when I turned the CB Board o' Truth around...

NastinoseCB-5.jpg


Hehe. And yes, before anyone starts, those ARE popsicle sticks there in the picture as well (I did mention I use the Board as a backstop for .177 pellets as well). The CB Long bullet is poking out, and the "gash" was about 4 inches or 10 cm long. Recalling that some .22 shooters had reported demolishing a backstop comprised of 2x4's with but a few 30-round magazines of Nastinose, I now understand what they were talking about. All the same, at the time I was slightly taken aback; this round had no more powder than any of its brethren (to the best of my knowledge), and the only thing that had changed was the shape of its top. At the same time, both the regular CB Long round and the Acu'rzr'ed round had failed to penetrate the width of the Board (or even dent the Board's backside). The moral? The next time someone asks you about the benefits of simply re-forming a .22's bullet, tell them that there's something to it... ;) Oh, right, I still have to show the picture of the Baby Scorp'n:

BabyScorpnCB-6.jpg


To tell you the truth, I was expecting significant penetration from this round - but I digress. When this re-shaped CB Long hit the Board, I just heard a loud "WHAP" - and then the mighty Board actually trembled and then fell forward! There was uneven-ness on the Board's backside, indicating penetration, but the real story here was what the Baby Scorp'n's purpose really is - to dump the round's power into the target, and to provide some penetration as well. I hate it when ill-informed people start spouting off about things like "knockdown power" and "energy transfer", but...had I not seen it with mine own eyes... Right, time to show the Baby Scorp'n shot next to my "Special" CB Long:

BabyScorpnSpecialCB-7.jpg


Note the hole from the Baby Scorp'n round is blacker than that of the round to its left - it retained its shape and penetrated straight-on through, without sliding upwards/downwards or to the sides. Anyhow, I call the left-most shot my "Special" shot because I thought it would be something to Nastinose a round and then add a touch of Baby Scorp'n to it. I hereby admit I was wrong in this respect. Let me explain this using some lines from the Family Guy:

Chris: Dad, what's the blowhole for?
Peter: I'll tell you what it's not for. And when I do,
you'll understand why I can never go back to Sea World.


I had made a very stupid mistake (note the "shellacking" I'm giving myself - no need to chime in!) in confusing a Hydra-shok round with the Quickshok round; the latter has a bullet that's essentially been cut into three-or-so pieces and then been swagged back together (to later become shrapnel), while the former has a central post that is designed to wedge in between the targets' innards and the inner walls of the bullet - with the goal of increasing expansion. The Baby Scorp'n produces Hydrashok-like bullets, and it's whole advantage - the central post (unlike Peter's central pos...nvm) - is therefore defeated by Nasti-nose'ing its centre. Oh well - here's the "Special" shot:

SpecialCB-8.jpg


It showed mild signs of displacing the backside of the Board, but I guess only the more "squishy" targets would really benefit from this kind of "Special" bullet. This makes me want to mention the other side of the above consideration - just as the Nastinose ruins the Baby Scorp'n formed-rounds, the Baby Scorp'n robs the Nastinose-formed rounds of their destructiveness. This "Special" formed-round sort of reminds me of one description of the 5.56mm "microgun" - 'an implement whose need has not yet arrived, and may never do so'.

The conclusion? Well, here goes:

1) Like the fellow from the Box o'Truth says, shooting is fun! (See, if I put that sentence as my first conclusion instead of my last, it's more of a homage than it is being a copy-cat, or so I tell myself).

2) The "Paco tool" does provide improvements to CB Long's, be it the more-pronounced entry of the Acu'rzr'ed round, the awesome destructiveness of the Nastinose CB Long, or the authoritative "WHAP" of the Baby Scorp'n'ed CB Long.

3) Don't Nastinose and then Baby-Scorp'n, or vice-versa - there seems to be little use in doing so.

4) It's like making things of beauty, only with mallet-whacks (here's one more picture of that lovely, lovely Nastinose CB Long):

Image005.jpg


Um, right. Accuracy testing to follow...

:) ;) :) ;) :)
 
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Good test. Thank you.
I'd donate a gopher for your experiment, but somethig's telling me you have plenty of stray cats in your neighborhood . :D

We'll wait for the accuracy test, with the hope that somebody will lose a good camera :)
 
I think I've got the picture-posting down-pat now...

I'm still not sure there's enough room in a .22 LR's hollowpoint for significant wax-filling, but I'm open to trying it, as well as to the input of others. Let's hear?

Up next: re-forming CCI Stingers - and that accuracy testing...
 
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