Imr 4064

There are two thinkgs that I like to pass on to new/novice reloaders:

1) Try to understand the burn rate charts and that many powders have the same or very similar burn rate as the known powder that you are using.

Search or google "Burn Rate Chart"


2) Only use powders that are listed in the loading data for that cartridge.
 
There are two thinkgs that I like to pass on to new/novice reloaders:

1) Try to understand the burn rate charts and that many powders have the same or very similar burn rate as the known powder that you are using.

Search or google "Burn Rate Chart"


2) Only use powders that are listed in the loading data for that cartridge.
 
nowarningshot said:
What has happened for you when it's cold? Would that be worse with 4064.
Click to expand...

When I was using IMR4064 in one of my Coyote rifles, a friend and I were on top of a hay bale stack in -25C, clear weather.

I was using a 308Win with 130 grn Robinette HPFB bullets and a 1-15 twist rate.

I had developed that load at around -5C and it was very accurate out to 350 yds.

I didn't think another 20 degrees lower would make much difference to the burn of the powder, especially with CCI250 magnum primers to help it along.

I never did check the velocity difference with the magnetospeed at -25C but I did check the point of impact at 250 yds from a bench and compared it to the work up targets, shot at similar altitude but 20C warmer.

The POI was 23inches (45cm) lower over a ten shot group which ran around 3 inches, which is a HUGE difference and makes good shots on Coyotes at those ranges next to impossible.
 
Ganderite said:
The revers is true. If you develop your loads in cool weather, they can be way overpressure ins the summer.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's why I got into hand loading in the first place. This one loads suits all conditions, such as altitude, temperature etc is just foolish when you're serious about accuracy and knowing the way your particular rifle shoots under those different conditions.

I've spoken with nimrods that don't even realize that their bullets lose energy as they get further away and drop or drift because of it. Taking into account the other factors never enters their minds.

One fellow, last spring showed me a box of Imperial 30-06, he inherited from his Grandfather. I was at least 35+ years old and his GF bought 20 boxes, with the Savage bolt rifle, back in the mid eighties. The box had a price tag of $5.95 on it.

There was a warning lable on the side that said "Dangerous within 5 miles"

He took this as proof the bullet would shoot flat out to 5 miles and got angry when I tried to burst his bubble.
 
bearhunter said:
When I was using IMR4064 in one of my Coyote rifles, a friend and I were on top of a hay bale stack in -25C, clear weather.

I was using a 308Win with 130 grn Robinette HPFB bullets and a 1-15 twist rate.

I had developed that load at around -5C and it was very accurate out to 350 yds.

I didn't think another 20 degrees lower would make much difference to the burn of the powder, especially with CCI250 magnum primers to help it along.

I never did check the velocity difference with the magnetospeed at -25C but I did check the point of impact at 250 yds from a bench and compared it to the work up targets, shot at similar altitude but 20C warmer.

The POI was 23inches (45cm) lower over a ten shot group which ran around 3 inches, which is a HUGE difference and makes good shots on Coyotes at those ranges next to impossible.
Click to expand...

Maybe your bullet shrunk

9moa shift in POI because it was -25 instead of -5? I find that hard to believe
 
I checked my load notes and here's some info :

308 Win, 180gr Winchester PP
IMR 4064

CCI 200 large rifle primer
+29c 2496 fps
+13c 2433 fps
-15c 2428 fps

CCI 250 large rifle magnum primer
+29c 2498 fps
+13c 2442 fps
-15c 2441 fps
 
bearhunter said:
Yup, that's why I got into hand loading in the first place. This one loads suits all conditions, such as altitude, temperature etc is just foolish when you're serious about accuracy and knowing the way your particular rifle shoots under those different conditions.

I've spoken with nimrods that don't even realize that their bullets lose energy as they get further away and drop or drift because of it. Taking into account the other factors never enters their minds.

One fellow, last spring showed me a box of Imperial 30-06, he inherited from his Grandfather. I was at least 35+ years old and his GF bought 20 boxes, with the Savage bolt rifle, back in the mid eighties. The box had a price tag of $5.95 on it.

There was a warning lable on the side that said "Dangerous within 5 miles"

He took this as proof the bullet would shoot flat out to 5 miles and got angry when I tried to burst his bubble.
Click to expand...

Believe even the flattest shooting long range calibers are dropping 12+feet at 1000yards. Slower like 6.5 creedmore, 20+ft. At 5 miles the bullet would be doing terminal velocity.....whatever a object gets to when falling from 30,000 ft. So 4/10 of a ounce at 190mph could be dangerous, just not as dangerous as the same little lead ball doing Mach 2.8.

Clavenism......Mach is the speed of sound so about 1040ft/sec depending on altitude and conditions. 2850 ft /sec ÷ 1040....carry the 5.....2.7% actual compliance with Quebecs lgr. Lieberal math, so racist.
 
todbartell said:
maybe your memory isn't what it used to be
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It isn't, but my hand written notes in my personal history reloading book haven't changed a bit.

One thing I have never done was to write down lot numbers in my notes.

The reason for that was simply that I blend all of the powders I have more than one pound of to get larger consistent lots.

Back in the day when I did that particular test, the powder likely had appx half military surplus powder with a 4064 or equivalent burn rate, mixed with several different lots of IMR4064.

This is likely the reason for such a discrepency with a recent manufacture lot of IMR4064

I still have that particular mix on the go but very little of it is the cheap but efficient surplus type.

I like having at least 10 pounds of 4064 type powder on hand as I use it in a lot of different cartridges.

I can still use this present batch of powder with the same loads, I developed with it back over 40 years ago, with only a bit of minor tweaking on some occaisions.
 
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todbartell said:
I checked my load notes and here's some info :

308 Win, 180gr Winchester PP
IMR 4064

CCI 200 large rifle primer
+29c 2496 fps
+13c 2433 fps
-15c 2428 fps

CCI 250 large rifle magnum primer
+29c 2498 fps
+13c 2442 fps
-15c 2441 fps
Click to expand...

thank you. I was a bit worried. this is negligible. It seems to me its the actual hotter temps that make it change more anyway. +29 - +13 looses 56fps, and +13 - -15 only looses 1fps
 
bearhunter said:
It isn't, but my hand written notes in my personal history reloading book haven't changed a bit.

One thing I have never done was to write down lot numbers in my notes.

The reason for that was simply that I blend all of the powders I have more than one pound of to get larger consistent lots.

Back in the day when I did that particular test, the powder likely had appx half military surplus powder with a 4064 or equivalent burn rate, mixed with several different lots of IMR4064.

This is likely the reason for such a discrepency with a recent manufacture lot of IMR4064

I still have that particular mix on the go but very little of it is the cheap but efficient surplus type.

I like having at least 10 pounds of 4064 type powder on hand as I use it in a lot of different cartridges.

I can still use this present batch of powder with the same loads, I developed with it back over 40 years ago, with only a bit of minor tweaking on some occaisions.
Click to expand...

Here I thought I was the only one doing that. Throw pounds in a 8 pounder, shake the shet out it. Refill my working small bottle from the 8 pounder so I'm minimizing how often I open the big jug.

Really it doesn't matter if your powder I slightly fast...slightly slow 4064...it's your 4064. Work up loads as usual.

On a much smaller scale, it's exactly what factories do....test...add a tested fast or slow ______powder to speed up or slow down this thousands of pounds of ______powder.
 
nowarningshot said:
Here I thought I was the only one doing that. Throw pounds in a 8 pounder, shake the shet out it. Refill my working small bottle from the 8 pounder so I'm minimizing how often I open the big jug.

Really it doesn't matter if your powder I slightly fast...slightly slow 4064...it's your 4064. Work up loads as usual.

On a much smaller scale, it's exactly what factories do....test...add a tested fast or slow ______powder to speed up or slow down this thousands of pounds of ______powder.
Click to expand...

Yup, that is my practice as well.
 
I do it too. Once did it to 5 different lots of 4895 and mixed it with 5 pounds of Lake City surplus 4895. I still have some of it. It is marked 4895? and those who see that label on ammo boxes get concerned.
 
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