IMR 4227 is close enough to H4227

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Urbansherpa

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I'm new to reloading and have read a ton on the Internet. I don't believe most of what I read. I do believe some things I read from official sources. I have read thru several hand loading manuals and will use that data for recipes (Hodgdon, Hornady, Nosler, etc)

Anyway, I've been reading that IMR 4227 and Hodgdon 4227 ARE the same powder as often that I've read they are NOT the same powder.

I recently bought a 'Made in Australia' can of IMR4227

I decided to call the company, as Hodgdon owns IMR. I was put thru to an expert powder representative of Hodgdon named 'Dave'

He told me that although the powders are NOT the same, they share very similar properties and
***DATA CAN BE USED INTERCHANGABLY.*** I asked him again and he restated SAME DATA FOR BOTH.

I admit I am new at this, but has anybody here ever heard a different story from a Hodgdon rep?
 
Here is a quopte from your post.

" I don't believe most of what I read. I do believe some things I read from official sources."

Why are you asking people on here for advice, if you are, in your own words, not going to believe what CGN members will post?
 
What i am doing
Powders are close but not the same

Old metal cans and some plastic cans of IMR 4227 was made in Canada and I use old IMR Data (I have old reloading books/ papers)
I have 1 old can of IMR made in Canada and saving it for 1 load for 1 rifle (cast 5 shot sub 1 inch at 100) and going to miss in when it is gone :ang

IMR 4227 and Hodgdon 4227 Made in Australia I use IMR or H4227 I use New Data (on web site)

look it up
ht tp://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html

ht tp://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/MSDS%20Files/Smokeless/Hodgdon/Extruded%20Rifle%20Powders/H4227%20%28AR2205%29.pdf

Made in Australia = ADI

Start at min and work up
 
H4831 said:
Here is a quopte from your post.

" I don't believe most of what I read. I do believe some things I read from official sources."

Why are you asking people on here for advice, if you are, in your own words, not going to believe what CGN members will post?
Click to expand...
Perhaps because he respects the advice from certain esteemed contributors such as yourself, rather than regurgitated bs from someone with no experience like me. :rolleyes:
 
Hodgon does not make powder. They buy powder from various manufacturers and label/package it themselves.

Powder is made from a recipe. Each batch is slightly different in speed. Batches that are close to the speed of the powder to be sold to us (known as"canister" powder") is sold in small cans. The other batches are sold in 20 kilo drums and the buyer is told that it is a 'fast" or 'slow" version of powder 4895, etc. It is up to the buyer to develop his load data. The drums of powder would come with a package of test data from the powder manufacturer (Bofers, Expro, Olin, ADI, etc.)

imrpowderbig.jpg


Some powder recipes are made by more than one manufacturer (4831, for example), and a packager like Hodgon can use different manufacturers over the years to make what it calls "4831".

My experience with 4227, 20 years ago, was that IMR was a bit faster. That was comparing one jug to another jug. I do not know if the difference was uniform or just the difference between those two jugs.

If Hogdon says their powder and the IMR 4227 are the same, that would be in reference to the powder now being made. It probably does not apply to the powders we have in our loading rooms.

If you use a real hot load of 4227 in your 357Mag, and buy a new can of 4227, I would run a little chrony test with the new powder to see what charge weight duplicates the velocity of the old powder.

I would not expect to see the exact same results.

Suppose you only buy a powder for which there has only ever been one maker, say RL-15 (made by Bofers). If I have been using my 8 pounder for 9 years and buy a new one, I would expect the new one to be different:

There are differences, lot to lot.
The old powder changes over the years, as it dries out.
 
H4831 said:
Here is a quopte from your post.

" I don't believe most of what I read. I do believe some things I read from official sources."

Why are you asking people on here for advice, if you are, in your own words, not going to believe what CGN members will post?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your constructive input. However, if you actually read the rest of the post, you will see that my question is actually
".........has anybody here ever heard a different story from a Hodgdon rep?"

If someone has heard a different story from a Hodgdon Rep then I would need to investigate this further. I am trying to err on the side of caution here. Although I take opinions with a grain of salt, I do appreciate them.
 
Thanks for the good replies. I'm trying to sponge up (and sift thru) as much info as I can before jumping into this hobby.
I'm planning on using powders that don't allow a double charge (based on their volume in the case) like TrailBoss.

Ganderite- that makes sense about new and old recipes for powders and their varying sources. I can now see why some some people on the Internet believe they are not interchangeable.
 
If you limit yourself to the couple of such powders you'll be severely limited in your options and miss out on a lot of good powders.

It's a lot better to learn and use procedures that limit the ability to double charge and that let you inspect after charging the cases to look for and cull out any missed cases or double loads.
 
Urbansherpa said:
Thanks for your constructive input. However, if you actually read the rest of the post, you will see that my question is actually
".........has anybody here ever heard a different story from a Hodgdon rep?"

If someone has heard a different story from a Hodgdon Rep then I would need to investigate this further. I am trying to err on the side of caution here. Although I take opinions with a grain of salt, I do appreciate them.
Click to expand...

Oh man, if you only knew what we know.
Read the goll dang books and follow the book authors recommendations.

Yikes...................f:P:2:
 
kamlooky said:
Oh man, if you only knew what we know.
Read the goll dang books and follow the book authors recommendations.
Click to expand...


KNOCK, KNOCK!

The answer to the question that you FAILED to read is not in any of the several books that I've read.

"...,if you only knew what we know." ????

What kind of response is that? If you know so much, why don't you just answer the question, rather than coming off as a 'know-it-all' ?

I'm trying to learn here.
 
Well this is not an answer to your wuetion but an answer in the form of a question. If you get a new can of powder from a different lot are you going to start at the bottom of the chart and work your way up looking for pressure signs? If you answered yes And the rep told you use the same data if the two were a wee bit different would you not be safe starting at the bottom of the chart and working your way up?
 
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