IMR 4350 and Hodgson 4350
- Thread starter JungleCat7
- Start date
Yes, they are close but you can't simply use the same data and expect the same results.
In my 7.08 I would use 1 1/2 to 2 grains less of the IMR compared to the Hodgdon for my 140 grain bullet loads, and achieve roughly the same speed. When I tried a grain for grain comparison I got a heavy bolt lift with the IMR a full grain before the Hodgdon.
In my 243 I could match charges grain for grain but the H4350 gave me almost 100 fps faster loads than the same charge weight with the IMR (90 grain bullets).
Two "different" powders require two different work up's.
H414/Win 760 is the only two that I know of that are a grain for grain exact match.
In my 7.08 I would use 1 1/2 to 2 grains less of the IMR compared to the Hodgdon for my 140 grain bullet loads, and achieve roughly the same speed. When I tried a grain for grain comparison I got a heavy bolt lift with the IMR a full grain before the Hodgdon.
In my 243 I could match charges grain for grain but the H4350 gave me almost 100 fps faster loads than the same charge weight with the IMR (90 grain bullets).
Two "different" powders require two different work up's.
H414/Win 760 is the only two that I know of that are a grain for grain exact match.
hometownhero
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They are the same powder so makes sense in that case.
Imr and H are different for everything that uses the same numbers i.e. 4831, 4350
There are a number of identical powders sold under different names. HS-6 (Win 540) HS-7 (Win ???) Ramshot Competition (Win AA), Varget (ADI ???) Reloader 15 (Bofors 44) etc.
As for the OP, what do you mean by "mix them"? If you mean interchange the data - no. The powders are similar, but not the same.
If you mean combine them into one can and mix it up, by all means. If you have 5 pounds of one and 7 pounds of the other, this would be a good idea. It would give you a much larger quantity of the same powder that the new load data would last for. After making the "new" powder, label it MIX4350 and develop a new load as per normal.
If you have a 8 pounder of one and part of 1 pound of the other, mix it in and carry on. You won't see any difference.
I have a 35 pound drum of MIX 4895 made up of a a number of different military powders of speed and structure similar to 4895. I use it to make all my plinker grade rifle ammo.
As for the OP, what do you mean by "mix them"? If you mean interchange the data - no. The powders are similar, but not the same.
If you mean combine them into one can and mix it up, by all means. If you have 5 pounds of one and 7 pounds of the other, this would be a good idea. It would give you a much larger quantity of the same powder that the new load data would last for. After making the "new" powder, label it MIX4350 and develop a new load as per normal.
If you have a 8 pounder of one and part of 1 pound of the other, mix it in and carry on. You won't see any difference.
I have a 35 pound drum of MIX 4895 made up of a a number of different military powders of speed and structure similar to 4895. I use it to make all my plinker grade rifle ammo.
JungleCat7
CGN Regular
Ganderite knows his stuff. Most people just don't have enough powder on hand to take advantage of "blending" several lots or even a couple. I have a large container of surplus 4831, H4831 and IMR4831 mixed together. It is a go to powder for some loads. I add to it on a regular basis. Last weekend at the first garage sale of the spring, I noticed a bunch of cans of powder in a box. It was all quite old but the containers weren't expanded or rusty. There were about a dozen cans in all. Two of them had masking tape over the original content marking but about half of them were full of the old 3031 and newer IMR3031. The rest were in white cans marked 4831.
The 4831 was just the old surplus stuff that used to be available for a buck a scoop at Jaeger's in Bellingham Washington. The scoops were large and held about 20oz of whichever powder you chose. the same store offered 25lb kegs and 50pound drums for us$17.50 and us$30. Good stuff, cheap and little or no difference to what is available now. The 3031 types went into a mixed lot I have of that powder and the 4831 types went into the 4831 keg of mixed lots. The two cans with the tape labels were spread over my wife's flower beds. I picked up just over eight pounds of usable propellant for $35.
If you are going to do this, be very careful. Make sure there isn't any rust inside the cans or on the metal lids of the paper containers. This is a sure sign the powders are breaking down. If you find rusty dust in a plastic container don't take a chance on it, just use it for fertilizer.
The Bofors 44 mentioned by Ganderite as being Re15 is as close as it gets but it is almost identical to IMR3031 as well. I haven't mixed all three together yet. In the case of the Bofors44 I loaded up equal starting loads for a P14 chambered in 303Brit using 3031 and Bofors 44. Velocities were very close over a Chrony. Re15 being close makes a lot of sense as it is in the same burn rate range but I would have to do a similar test before mixing it into the lot. Reloader powders are often hard to find and I don't have any real quantities on hand at any given time.
Many people are terrified to even mix different lots of the same powder together to get a significant lot of consistent powder. Fine. To err on the side of safety is not really an error. But if you have a bunch of different cans of the same powder then IMHO go ahead and blend them. At the prices we pay for off the shelf commercially packaged powder throwing it out just doesn't make sense, especially if the powder is reliably identifiable.
The 4831 was just the old surplus stuff that used to be available for a buck a scoop at Jaeger's in Bellingham Washington. The scoops were large and held about 20oz of whichever powder you chose. the same store offered 25lb kegs and 50pound drums for us$17.50 and us$30. Good stuff, cheap and little or no difference to what is available now. The 3031 types went into a mixed lot I have of that powder and the 4831 types went into the 4831 keg of mixed lots. The two cans with the tape labels were spread over my wife's flower beds. I picked up just over eight pounds of usable propellant for $35.
If you are going to do this, be very careful. Make sure there isn't any rust inside the cans or on the metal lids of the paper containers. This is a sure sign the powders are breaking down. If you find rusty dust in a plastic container don't take a chance on it, just use it for fertilizer.
The Bofors 44 mentioned by Ganderite as being Re15 is as close as it gets but it is almost identical to IMR3031 as well. I haven't mixed all three together yet. In the case of the Bofors44 I loaded up equal starting loads for a P14 chambered in 303Brit using 3031 and Bofors 44. Velocities were very close over a Chrony. Re15 being close makes a lot of sense as it is in the same burn rate range but I would have to do a similar test before mixing it into the lot. Reloader powders are often hard to find and I don't have any real quantities on hand at any given time.
Many people are terrified to even mix different lots of the same powder together to get a significant lot of consistent powder. Fine. To err on the side of safety is not really an error. But if you have a bunch of different cans of the same powder then IMHO go ahead and blend them. At the prices we pay for off the shelf commercially packaged powder throwing it out just doesn't make sense, especially if the powder is reliably identifiable.
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Armored Metal
CGN frequent flyer
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- The People's Republik of Kébekistan
What I don't get is if two powders are said to be identical, then why do they have different load data?
Example: W231 and HP-38
Example: W231 and HP-38
I'm just taking a geuss but they probably had too different lots of powder during testing and came up with slightly different numbers?
What I don't get is if two powders are said to be identical, then why do they have different load data?
Example: W231 and HP-38
Exactly. Different lot numbers on different days.
Armored Metal
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CanadianDad
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I had the same question about Hodgdon H4895 and IMR 4895 being the same powders in essence. I was told at Wholesale Sports that they were when I bought the Hodgdon 4895 but you know those guys aren't always the best source of info! I am not planning on mixing them but do plan on using the same powder loading weights to start with for my .308 and .223 loads. Is that OK?
It depends. (Sorry.)
If you are starting to load for the caliber, for the first time, with with either powder, you just start with the START load, and work up.
If you have been using one brand, have good load data, and now have a can of the other brand, your data is still fairly good, so load your usual load, plus 0.3 more and 0.3 less and fine tune. Any time you buy a can of new powder, you should do the same because powder varies slightly from lot to lot.
For this reason, when you buy powder, buy as big a batch as you can. I don't like to buy less than a pair of 8 pounders, and a 48 pounder is better.
And when you use powder, don't leave it in the powder thrower. It dries out and changes speed.
