IMR 4895 vs. H4895, etc...

[atherisdoode]

This is a multi-question post.

I have a couple of accurate loads for my savage 12FCNS ( 1:9 ) using IMR 4895 and winchester 2253H heads. I ordered some IMR 4895 and was given H4895 when the order came in. I checked the burn rates and noticed the H4895 has a slightly faster combustion speed. The most accurate load uses 25grs of IMR 4895 with the 53gr win 2253. I noticed a lot of online forums where reloaders were using 25grs with 55gr heads, therefore I'm assuming there would be no danger using 25grs of the H4895 with 52gr/53gr heads?

Next, the box of winchester 2253H I am using is about empty and I noticed this line has been discontinued. Does anybody have a suggestion for an alternative bullet with coparable performance? I was thinking about moving to Sierra HPBT in 52grs. Does anybody have a better suggestion and/or some pet .223 loads they are willing to share?

Last part. I have been using a friend's powders for my test loads in an effort to find which powders, etc... I need to purchase and store. I am going to assume there are federal regulations on powder storage etc... would there be a link to these requirements?

Thanks!

 

[hunter5425]

If your looking for a new load go to ht tp://www.hodgdon.com/ and look at their data for both powders and Sierra bullets and work up from their minimums to find a load that works for your rifle. As for storing primers and powder their is a sticky in this forum that describes the storage regulations http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322015 . Before someone jumps down your throat for it the correct term is bullets not heads . Good shooting.

 

[atherisdoode]

If your looking for a new load go to ht tp://www.hodgdon.com/ and look at their data for both powders and Sierra bullets and work up from their minimums to find a load that works for your rifle. As for storing primers and powder their is a sticky in this forum that describes the storage regulations http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322015 . Before someone jumps down your throat for it the correct term is bullets not heads . Good shooting.

Yeah... my reloading guru uses the term heads. I actually hesitated before using it. I just read the powder link. Naturally, my next question would be what constitutes a "substantial magazine?" This sort of reminds me of Marx. He proposed a communist system without providing a concise blueprint from which to build one.

 

[FLSTFO2]

Sierra's , Hornady's, Nosler's and Berger's all shoot very well. I found the Bergers will shoot inside the rest but are about 10 cents more per lead. Varget or RL15 may be your best bet for powder. With your 9 twist you may want to try heavier bullets 60 to 70g should shoot nice .

 

[dead meat]

In general the powder storage container should be made of wood, and have a lockable door. Explosives should be written on it. For home storage no need to get real carried away unless you are storing large amounts and that is restricted to a number that escapes me at the moment. A box 2' square will accomadate a lot of powder. Mine is in a cupboard 5' wide and 3' high with some shelves on both side for dies and such, and the powder storage in the middle with a lockable door. Can`t help with the 223 load but i prefer Hodgon powder over IMR.

 

[LUTNIT]

There is actually a second set of powder storage regulations and there is some debate over which is the correct one. The second set of regulations I believe is a max of 75kg of powder in a 2" thick wood box that doesn't use ferrous (iron) fasteners and is "easily removable" from your residence in case of fire.

Both sets of regulations state the container must be kept clean, marked with warnings, and used exclusively for powder. It's the last bit that many people don't follow.

As for the definition of a "substantial magazine" in the linked to regulations it is open ended and up to any inspecting officer to define for themselves.

 

[atherisdoode]

There is actually a second set of powder storage regulations and there is some debate over which is the correct one. The second set of regulations I believe is a max of 75kg of powder in a 2" thick wood box that doesn't use ferrous (iron) fasteners and is "easily removable" from your residence in case of fire.

Both sets of regulations state the container must be kept clean, marked with warnings, and used exclusively for powder. It's the last bit that many people don't follow.

As for the definition of a "substantial magazine" in the linked to regulations it is open ended and up to any inspecting officer to define for themselves.

The NFA site gave me some clues:

http://www.nfa.ca/resource-items/nrcan-handloading-explosives-act

I then found the act itself and managed to get the exact statute. It is still somewhat vague. What thickness, etc...

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._599/page-33.html#docCont

136. In this Part, “suitable receptacle” means a substantial box or substantial container,

(a) that may be placed inside a building that is not itself adapted for the keeping of explosives;

(b) the location of which is not changed from that prescribed by an inspector or under provincial or municipal law;

(c) that is kept away from goods of an inflammable nature; and

(d) that is of easy access for removal in case of fire.

137. In regard to any receptacle, the following provisions shall be observed:

(a) it shall be provided with a closely fitting lid secured by a lock, and hinges and fastenings, preferably of copper or brass, and otherwise closed and secured so as to prevent unauthorized persons having access thereto, and shall be kept locked except when required to be open for receipt or removal of explosives, or other necessary purpose;

(b) it shall be exclusively used for the keeping of explosives;

(c) it shall be made of wood, copper or other suitable material;

(d) the interior of the receptacle and all fittings therein shall be so constructed, covered or lined as to prevent the exposure of any iron or steel, or of any hard or gritty surface, or the entry, detaching, or accumulating of grit, iron, steel or similar substance;

(e) the interior of the receptacle shall be kept scrupulously clean; and

(f) the receptacle shall have the word “EXPLOSIVES” conspicuously displayed thereon on a contrasting background.

 

[atherisdoode]

Can`t help with the 223 load but i prefer Hodgon powder over IMR.

A lot of American forums have a lot of nice things to say about H4895 and .223. The loads seem to be from 25 grs to 26 grs with 55gr bullets. My problem is that 2 different local experts gave me differing opions. One said "be careful" and the other said "It's exactly the same thing as IMR since Hodgdon distribute both." It would seem they are not the same thing at all. I'm glad I checked further and got hodgdon's burn rate chart. The particular load I seem to like appears to be interchangeabe and wouldn't cause any problems, but such is not always the case. I noticed there's also winchester IMR 4895...

 

[atherisdoode]

There is actually a second set of powder storage regulations and there is some debate over which is the correct one. The second set of regulations I believe is a max of 75kg of powder in a 2" thick wood box that doesn't use ferrous (iron) fasteners and is "easily removable" from your residence in case of fire.

Both sets of regulations state the container must be kept clean, marked with warnings, and used exclusively for powder. It's the last bit that many people don't follow.

As for the definition of a "substantial magazine" in the linked to regulations it is open ended and up to any inspecting officer to define for themselves.

It gets better in my case since I live in the province of Quebec ( please, please, please no comments, snide remarks, etc... I have seen it all by now and can't take it anymore...I still have to live here anyway... LOL ). It would seem the Que gov't has limited powder storage to 10 pounds or something. This came via word of mouth so now I have more research to do...

 

[atherisdoode]

follow-up and thanks

Sierra's , Hornady's, Nosler's and Berger's all shoot very well. I found the Bergers will shoot inside the rest but are about 10 cents more per lead. Varget or RL15 may be your best bet for powder. With your 9 twist you may want to try heavier bullets 60 to 70g should shoot nice .

Thanks for that suggestion. I'm getting under 1 inch groups with IMR 4895 with W2253H, but a friend of mine who owns a Tikka T3 in .223 told me last night managed to get under half-inch groups by using 69 gr bullets. Previously he simply couldn't get any decent groups with it.

Thus far, all of the responses to my query are helping my learning curve. I haven't been near reloading for close to 20 years and just started up again. I've also found two suitable boxes for powder storage. I noticed one comment on the NFA website link I cited. They stated you almost have to be a constitutional lawyer to stay abrest of all of these rules and regulations. They weren't kidding. Simply finding the info is difficult, let alone adhering to it.

Many thanks to all of you.

 

[dthunter]

Hi guys!

I have found that two powders that have identicle burn rate numbers from different
Manufacturers, for example: IMR4198-H4198 are close, but different enough to cause potential problems.

With my 45-70 (IMR4198 & 350Gr Hornady flat point) reached maximum pressures at around 2100 fps. My load density was in the realm of 90%. this load shot about 1-1/2 to 2" groups at 100.

With H4198, my max pressures were "JUST" reached by the time the max charge in the books (hodgdon manual) was tried.
this resulted in a load that gets me 2222fps average, and 1" to 1-1/2" groups. The load density is such that I get mild compression when I seat the bullet.
To me this is a perfect sitiuation.

So, after all that explaination, it seems to me that you really cant consider both powders identical. But just close.
And by having both brands close by when reloading, you may just be able to tweak your load development a little more precisely. A great option indeed!

Hopefully this info can help someone out there.

Straight shootin, and keep it fun!